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#264153 - 10/10/13 01:25 AM Re: SAR reboot after BC man found alive [Re: dougwalkabout]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1181
Loc: Channeled Scablands
Since I have been on SAR searches in California this time of year where people died overnight, even with a full pack of gear, due to bad weather, I can see the possibility in BC.

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#264156 - 10/10/13 04:12 AM Re: SAR reboot after BC man found alive [Re: dougwalkabout]
Phaedrus Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3152
Loc: Big Sky Country
Wow, that does sound strange. Hard to imagine how the other guy died unless he fell, ate some poisonous shrooms or had some bad medical condition. I guess it would be hard to self-evac the guy once he went down, and if there's nothing more than that it would put you in a hard spot. If the guy is down and can't be moved, do you stay and watch him die or leave him and try to get him help?
_________________________
“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman

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#264162 - 10/10/13 05:42 AM Re: SAR reboot after BC man found alive [Re: dougwalkabout]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3219
Loc: Alberta, Canada
clearwater's comment has a lot of wisdom in it.

I checked the current forecast for Terrace BC, and it's essentially "overcast with showers and lows of 4-5 deg.C, humidity 90%". I would guess that's roughly consistent with the last two weeks, based on the location and time of year.

That's a perfect hypothermia zone IMO. You can hardly help getting damp/wet, you can't dry out, and the temp drops to nearly freezing at night. Nasty and insidious. It's actually easier to operate in snow at -10C because everything is dry-ish.

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#264163 - 10/10/13 05:58 AM Re: SAR reboot after BC man found alive [Re: Phaedrus]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3219
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By: Phaedrus
If the guy is down and can't be moved, do you stay and watch him die or leave him and try to get him help?


Rather an impossible situation. If you can get help quickly, you might save him, and off you go. But if you don't know that you can bring help with reasonable certainty, then you will most likely stay to offer aid and comfort.

I am deeply thankful that I have never had to make such a call.

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#264166 - 10/10/13 07:19 AM Re: SAR reboot after BC man found alive [Re: dougwalkabout]
Phaedrus Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3152
Loc: Big Sky Country
I guess I missed that part. I figured since they had a fire for a week they must not have had issues with the cold, but probably they did. Especially when they started moving. But it sounded to my reading that he was bad and getting worse and the other guy stuck around til he died. Was he hypothermic beyond the ability to warm him without medical care? I realize we're guessing based on very little evidence and filling the blanks with our imagination. Without sounding morbid, I would like to know some details, for the reasons already mentioned. It's terrible that someone lost their life, but worse still if nothing is learned from it.

Shades of that father and his two boys that died a ways back from hypothermia. That one still bothers me to this day.
_________________________
“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman

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#264168 - 10/10/13 11:40 AM Re: SAR reboot after BC man found alive [Re: Phaedrus]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
The insidious thing about hypothermia (and other environmental stressors, as well) is that the condition quickly affects brain function, clouding your judgment just when you need it most
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Geezer in Chief

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#264170 - 10/10/13 12:50 PM Re: SAR reboot after BC man found alive [Re: hikermor]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Sad situation all around. The rescuers left two people in the field and one died. I'm sure they're second guessing their decisions now, but at the time, in the moment they probably made the right call. At some point with no results you make that call.

People going into the field, even mushroom pickers, have a responsibility to stay found. We've all seen way too many situations like this that started innocently but ended up with peeps getting lost. After that the only way they go is south. The survivor is lucky to have made it out.

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#264178 - 10/10/13 05:13 PM Re: SAR reboot after BC man found alive [Re: dougwalkabout]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1181
Loc: Channeled Scablands
Canadian SAR has some issues.


"Conclusion of the fatal accident that took the life of a Montreal woman

On February 21st there were two more sightings of S.O.S. signals in the snow by skiers who alerted the RCMP. However, when the RCMP contacted Kicking Horse Resort they were told they already had done their investigation and there was no evidence supporting missing people. The RCMP did not take further action at that time.

Examiner Note: Why were the S.O.S. signs in the snow continuously ignored? A plea for help should never go unheeded.

On February 23rd the family of Blackburn and Fortin filed a missing person's report when the couple did not return home to LaSalle, Quebec (Montreal).

The following day, February 24th, the search resumed and a helicopter spotted a man waving his arms in the snow. He was rescued, but it was already too late for his wife who had frozen to death.

What went wrong

In B.C. the search and rescue team must first be given the okay to go on the search and rescue mission; they cannot just act on their own. While the search and rescue team waited for the RCMP to give them the okay, Blackburn and his wife were walking around for days in the snow. They built shelters wherever they could. Ian Foss, the manager of the volunteer Golden Search and Rescue team said, "It's pretty incredible that he actually survived," Foss said. "Ten days in the Canadian wilderness in the winter is pretty significant."

The couple did not have any food with them except for two granola bars. They found water to drink, and Blackburn even slipped under the ice into the water and managed to pull himself back up. Furthermore, this part of the country is steep rugged terrain and not a place for an inexperienced individual. Blackburn and his wife were experienced outdoor people and only Blackburn made it in the end. He was taken to the hospital with symptoms of frostbite.

Could his wife have been saved? If only the search was conducted two days sooner she would have been. The RCMP admits making an error in judgment by not launching a full-scale search sooner.

S.O.S. means help, not ignore!"

http://voices.yahoo.com/woman-dies-snow-rcmp-slow-respond-7475042.html

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#264181 - 10/10/13 06:59 PM Re: SAR reboot after BC man found alive [Re: dougwalkabout]
celler Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/25/03
Posts: 410
Loc: Jupiter, FL
PLBs are so small and inexpensive now. There is no reason not to carry one if you plan on going that far off the grid. Could have been a much different result here.

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#264187 - 10/11/13 12:43 AM Re: SAR reboot after BC man found alive [Re: celler]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Originally Posted By: celler
PLBs are so small and inexpensive now. There is no reason not to carry one if you plan on going that far off the grid. Could have been a much different result here.


True enough, but if you can disregard SOS signals in the snow, you can probably rationalize disregarding a PLB signal - they are basically just an electronic SOS.
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