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#264439 - 10/17/13 01:35 PM Re: How do you apply direct pressure? [Re: codyjack]
Tjin Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1821
Originally Posted By: codyjack
Maybe a little off-topic, but what would you guys recommend to stop major bleedings:

"Chemical" solutions like Quikclot and other clotting agents, or rather "physical" ones like the Israeli bandage or tourniquets, that work by applying pressure?

I could imagine that the "normal" bandages are more rugged when still wrapped, and even if their expiration date is up, they should still be sterile and thus usable as long as the packaging is intact.

Chemical agents, on the other hand, might really not be as effective when they expire (I have no idea), and I guess extreme storage conditions like in a dark backpack under direct sunlight might have negative effects on them (again, no idea).

I know that most kits have a combination of both types, but what if you had to choose?


Depends on the expected us. I never had to use such bandage. Just lots of gauze or gauze rolls will take care of all common injuries. The Israeli bandage or quickclot are more for gunshots or other very large wounds/bleeds. Tourniquets are not for directly on a wound and wrongly used can cause more harm than good.
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#264440 - 10/17/13 01:51 PM Re: How do you apply direct pressure? [Re: codyjack]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Time is of the essence, especially with copious bleeding - use your hands and clamp down (glove up first, if possible). I have worked a fair number of accident scenes with major bleeding, and DP has always worked quite well.

What instruction did you receive in FA class? That is always good to follow.
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#264441 - 10/17/13 02:14 PM Re: How do you apply direct pressure? [Re: bigmbogo]
codyjack Offline
Stranger

Registered: 07/02/10
Posts: 11
Now that I reread my own question, I noticed that I didn't really make clear what I wanted to know:

Let's say you have limited space in your pack but you want to add something to treat massive bleedings. Would you pick "chemical" or "regular"?

But I don't want to highjack this thread, so back on topic:

Hikermon, in first aid class (a course especially for basic life support in car accidents) we learned this to apply pressure: Put the dressing of your bandage on the wound, roll some of the gauze around and then put another (still wrapped) bandage on top of the dressing. Then wrap tightly until it stops bleeding, maybe even by adding another wrapped bandage on top of the first one.
Actually, you have to roll in a special way to better not completely restrict the bloodflow of the extremity (if the wound is on the upper arm, for example).


Edited by codyjack (10/17/13 02:15 PM)
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#264442 - 10/17/13 02:17 PM Re: How do you apply direct pressure? [Re: codyjack]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3823
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: codyjack
"Chemical" solutions like Quikclot and other clotting agents, or rather "physical" ones like the Israeli bandage or tourniquets, that work by applying pressure?


Some wounds may be best treated by blood stopping agents, such as deep penetrating wounds that are bleeding profusely and don't lend themselves to being stopped by a tourniquet. If you don't have blood stopping agents (or you have a sponge type that won't fit in the wound) you may need to pack gauze into the wound instead.

Other wounds may be best treated with a tourniquet, such as a lost limb.

A pressure bandage might not work given the wounded person's position; for example you may not be able to apply the pressure bandage without extricating the victim but the bleed is such that treatment can't wait for extrication.

Don't use tourniquets for head wounds. Otherwise I don't think there's a one-size-fits-all answer to your question.

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#264443 - 10/17/13 02:18 PM Re: How do you apply direct pressure? [Re: codyjack]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3823
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: codyjack
Let's say you have limited space in your pack but you want to add something to treat massive bleedings. Would you pick "chemical" or "regular"?


I have some extremely small kits with both. A pack of Combat Gauze doesn't take up much space. Nor does a SWAT-T -- while not the best tourniquet or pressure bandage, it's inexpensive and can be used for either purpose. Great for a small kit, like the one I have in my laptop bag.

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#264447 - 10/17/13 05:21 PM Re: How do you apply direct pressure? [Re: bigmbogo]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
I'll just throw out another possible option to the toolbag, er, first aid kit. Basically, it's the use of a cling wrap type bandage to apply hands-free pressure. Not just directly on the wound, but also a more generalized compression that slows the blood flow to the area which could be preferable to direct pressure. For example, for a wound with underlying fractures where traditional direct pressure would be excruciating for the injured person. Sort of an alternative to a tourniquet, but less extreme.

Some of you might remember me asking about it in this old post:

ELAD--The other Israeli bandage

Does anyone know if this idea ever became commercialized and put into the field? I've never heard it mentioned anywhere else.

It would be quite simple to replicate the general idea of the ELAD. It would be helpful to take a "normal" 12-18" wide cling wrap you can buy at the supermarket and cut in half or even smaller. Narrower would seem to be more convenient for wrapping an arm or head wound than a foot-wide roll. But a foot-wide roll could be handy for other hard-to-compress sites like an abdominal wound.

Cheap, doesn't stretch when soaked with blood like an elastic bandage might, sticks to itself, and being transparent, it allows some degree of checking on the condition of the wrapped area without having to unwrap the bandage.

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#264458 - 10/18/13 03:00 AM Re: How do you apply direct pressure? [Re: bigmbogo]
Pete Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1372
Cody - i would carry bandages impregnated with QuickClot.

Pete2

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#264463 - 10/18/13 03:43 AM Re: How do you apply direct pressure? [Re: Arney]
UTAlumnus Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 1019
Loc: East Tennessee near Bristol
Looks like it would be good for larger areas like abrasions after a fall. Wish I'd known about it six years ago.

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