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#263695 - 09/23/13 05:00 PM Emergency water purification system
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
"Lifestraw Family" water purification system. If it lives up to the specs listed on the webpage below, looks to be a great addition to a family disaster-pack. Now available in the USA. $89

http://eartheasy.com/lifestraw-family-1-0

I have a pair of the smaller personal model, $19. Never used them, still sealed in original packaging for emergencies. I should probably open one up and try it to make sure they work as advertised. The personal model does not do viruses though. But the family model does.

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#263712 - 09/24/13 12:30 PM Re: Emergency water purification system [Re: haertig]
gonewiththewind Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
They do come highly recommended, but I have never used them either. I like the system that you linked to, nice for a small group of people and easy to use.

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#263719 - 09/24/13 07:19 PM Re: Emergency water purification system [Re: haertig]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078

I have a Lifesaver Jerry Can Water filter in storage for home/family emergency.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8yxUU3qv5s

The Lifesaver can be very useful for filtering grey water/rain water storage collection systems. The shower attachment should be useful for also cleaning dishes as the last rinse before air drying.

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#263724 - 09/25/13 07:56 AM Re: Emergency water purification system [Re: haertig]
Tjin Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1821
Maybe i'm old fashion, but i still prefer the ceramic filters because you can clean them and even can get them to work again after clogging it with the most disgusting water/mud you can find. (sometimes you don't have a choice in water source).

The newer hollow fiber technology, can only be backwashed so i'm not convinced it can take such abuse.

I do have the smaller lifestraws and a MSR Miniworks EX for regular use and keep two ceramic Tulip gravity filters for emergency's:
http://safetysecurityandpreparedness.blogspot.nl/2013/06/tulip-water-filter.html
_________________________


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#263726 - 09/25/13 03:27 PM Re: Emergency water purification system [Re: haertig]
LesSnyder Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 1680
Loc: New Port Richey, Fla
it would be nice if the filter manufacturers would standardize the virus/bacteria size rejection in the same units of measurement...microns and nanometers I understand... but with the log { } rejection rate.... log 9 of what size virus?...a 300 nm (.3 micron), or 20nm (.02 micron)

anyone with more expertise in the area, please help....

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#263727 - 09/25/13 04:10 PM Re: Emergency water purification system [Re: haertig]
JPickett Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/03/12
Posts: 264
Loc: Missouri
I'm not remotely a microbiologist or statistician, but I believe the log 9 you refer to means the filter removes all but 1 in 100 million viruses. It has no relation to size of virus. After this, I'm not competent to say anything. Per Clint Eastwood.

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#263728 - 09/25/13 04:55 PM Re: Emergency water purification system [Re: haertig]
LesSnyder Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 1680
Loc: New Port Richey, Fla
JPidkett... thanks.. I understand the log part... just wish they would standardize on what size hole they will fit through... especially the ceramic filters...

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#263744 - 09/26/13 03:27 PM Re: Emergency water purification system [Re: haertig]
JerryFountain Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 418
Loc: St. Petersburg, Florida
Les,

The problem is that the hole size does not control if you get sick or not. Living organisms are soft. Even if they are .2 mm across some of them will get through a .1mm filter. It also depends on the design of the filter. It will vary for different designs using the same filter material. A single layer 1mm filter (a screen, in essence) will pass more than a .2mm x 1cm thick ceramic filter. The answer is to determine how much is removed. If it is enough, you will probably not get sick. That is why the important number is rejection rate.

Respectfully,

Jerry

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#263745 - 09/26/13 03:57 PM Re: Emergency water purification system [Re: haertig]
JPickett Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/03/12
Posts: 264
Loc: Missouri
What Jerry said.

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#263747 - 09/26/13 05:14 PM Re: Emergency water purification system [Re: haertig]
LesSnyder Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 1680
Loc: New Port Richey, Fla
Jerry....Thanks for the reply

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#263774 - 09/29/13 03:27 AM Re: Emergency water (gallons, EPA LT2 ESWTR ) [Re: haertig]
EMPnotImplyNuclear Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 382
Yup, looks pretty good. For about the same price as the personal model you can get a Sawyer MINI™ Filter [SP128] which will do one hundred thousand gallons (versus 264 gallons) for same weight with a better flowrate -- the bigger sawyer filters have a million gallon filter guarantee , compared to this family model with a 4,750 gallons still a good filter, but the competition is really tough smile
Anyway , speaking of filtration standards and log reductions smile quotestorm smirk
The source of the "??EPA chlorine minimum" numbers
Originally Posted By: http://phc.amedd.army.mil/PHC%20Resource%20Library/TIPVersion31-002CHLORINE_INFORMATION_PAPER.pdf

USEPA Guide Standard and Protocol for Testing Microbiological Water Purifiers ??chlorine standards are minimum??
Code:
6-log reduction/inactivation of bacteria
one million          |log(6)  = 99.9999%
4-log reduction/inactivation of viruses, and
ten thousand         |log(4)  = 99.99%
3-log reduction/inactivation of protozoan cysts
one thousand         |log(3)  = 99.9% 


raw sewage (poop water ) is smile
Originally Posted By: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_water_filters
known to produce good tasting water, once again divorcing “good taste” with purity.


Originally Posted By: http://www.cawst.org/es/resources/pubs/category/15-intro-to-hwts
Code:
Filtration Type      | Pore Size (µm / nm)    | Molecular Weight (Daltons)
Microfiltration (MF) | 0.1-10 µm (1-1000 nm)  | 
Ultrafiltration (UF) | 0.01-0.1 µm (1-100 nm) | 10,000- 500,000
Nanofiltration (NF)  | <0.001 µm (<1 nm)      | 200-1,000
Reverse osmosis (RO) | <0.001 µm (<1 nm)      | <100    

Originally Posted By: http://www.princeton.edu/~oa/manual/water.shtml

Organism |Examples |General Size |Filter Type |Particle Size Rating
Protozoa |Giardia, Cryptosporidium |5 microns or larger |Water filter |1.0–4.0 microns
Bacteria |Cholera, E. coli, Salmonella |0.2–0.5 microns |Microfilter |0.2–1.0 microns
Viruses |Hepatitis A, rotavirus, Norwalk virus |0.004 microns |Water purifier |to 0.004 microns

Log Reduction and Percent Reductions in Microbiology
Code:
 1-logr =  ten                  = 90%          = (1 - (1e-1 )) * 100
 2-logr =  one hundred          = 99%          = (1 - (1e-2 )) * 100
 3-logr =  one thousand         = 99.9%        = (1 - (1e-3 )) * 100
#~ ??EPA chlorine minimum  #~ 3-log reduction/inactivation of protozoan cysts
#~ Sawyer® Water Filters #~ 6-log reduction/inactivation of protozoan cysts
 4-logr =  ten thousand         = 99.99%       = (1 - (1e-4 )) * 100
#~ ??EPA chlorine minimum  #~ 4-log reduction/inactivation of viruses
#~ Sawyer® Water Filters #~ 5.5-log reduction/inactivation of viruses, 99.9997%
 5-logr =  one hundred thousand = 99.999%      = (1 - (1e-5 )) * 100
 6-logr =  one million          = 99.9999%     = (1 - (1e-6 )) * 100
#~ ??EPA chlorine minimum  #~ 6-log reduction/inactivation of bacteria
#~ Sawyer® Water Filters #~ 7-log reduction/inactivation of bacteria
 7-logr =  ten million          = 99.99999%    = (1 - (1e-7 )) * 100
 8-logr =  one hundred million  = 99.999999%   = (1 - (1e-8 )) * 100
 9-logr =  one billion          = 99.9999999%  = (1 - (1e-9 )) * 100
10-logr =  ten billion          = 99.99999999% = (1 - (1e-10)) * 100

* Giardia lamblia - 8 to 12 microns
* Cryptosporidium parvum - 4 to 6 microns
* Bacteria (such as E. coli and salmonella) - 0.2 to 4 microns
* Viruses - 0.004 to 0.1 microns (Generally, only a few filters, such as ultrafilters and reverse osmosis, have holes small enough to assure removal of all viruses. However, viruses can be killed using a disinfectant).

Originally Posted By: http://www.sawyer.com/waterFAQ.html#Q4

Q4. What is the difference between the PointONE™ and Point ZEROTWO™ Filtration Systems and how do I know which to use?
First, Sawyer's filters and purifiers are rated in Absolute Microns. This means there is no pore size larger than 0.1 or 0.02 micron in size on the PointONE™ and PointZEROTWO™ respectively.
This means that it is impossible for harmful bacteria, protozoa, or cysts like E. coli, Giradia, Vibrio cholerae and Salmonella typhi (which cause Cholera and Typhoid) to pass through the Sawyer filters and purifiers. At 7 log (99.99999%) the filter attains the highest level of filtration available today. The PointZEROTWO™ filter removes both bacteria and viruses.
A4.2: Sawyer PointZEROTWO™ Purifier - If viruses are an issue,...
A4.3: North America vs. Third World Countries - In North America we do not have concerns about viruses in our water....
replacing your filter if you suspect that it has been frozen. THERE IS NO WARRANTY FOR A FROZEN FILTER


Originally Posted By: http://www.epa.gov/ogwdw/faq/pdfs/fs_healthseries_filtration.pdf

Originally Posted By: http://www.epa.gov/safewater/consumer/pdf/crypto.pdf

Advice for people with severely compromised immune systems Those who wish to take extra measures to avoid waterborne cryptosporidiosis can bring their drinking water to a boil for a full minute. Boiling water is the most effective way of killing Cryptosporidium.As an alternative to boiling water,people may take the following measures: Use a point-of-use filter Consider using point-of-use (personal use, end-of-tap, under sink) filters that remove particles one micrometer or less in diameter. Filters that use reverse osmosis, those labeled as “absolute one micron filters,” or those labeled as certified by an American National Standards Institute (ANSI) - accredited organization to ANSI/NSF Standard 53 for “Cyst Removal” provide the greatest assurance of removing Cryptosporidium. As with all filters, follow the manufacturer’s instructions for filter use and replacement.


Originally Posted By: http://www.sawyer.com/documents/pointONE-instructions.pdf

This flter removes 7 log (99.99999%) of all bacteria and 6 log (99.9999%) of all Protozoa:
Bacteria: I.E.: Cholera, Botulism (Clostridum botulinum), Typhoid (Salmonella typhi), Amoebic Dysentery, E. Coli, Coliform Bacteria,
Streptococcus, Salmonella
Protozoan (Cyst): I.E.: Giardia, Cryptosporidium, Cyclospora


Originally Posted By: http://sawyer.com/waterFAQ.html#Q10

Q10: Do you have more information about Sawyer's Label Claim and Million Gallon Guarantee?
A10.1 We have independent lab tests using EPA protocols and information about our Million Gallon Guarantee that are available on our Downloads Page.

Originally Posted By: http://www.sawyer.com/water.html

SAWYER POINT ZeroTWO™ BIOLOGICAL & VIRAL WATER PURIFIERS
The Sawyer Point ZeroTWO™ Viral Water Purifier offers the same level of protection against bacteria
and protozoa, and is the first portable filtration device to remove viruses mechanically.
It does so at a 0.02 Micron Absolute 5.5 log (99.9997%) removal rate,
the highest level of filtration available today.

Originally Posted By: http://eartheasy.com/lifestraw-family-1-0

Filters up to 4,750 gallons or 18,000 liters of water to 0.02 microns (20 nm)
Removes minimum 99.9999% of bacteria (>LOG 6 reduction)
Removes minimum 99.99% of viruses (>LOG 4 reduction)
Removes minimum 99.9% of protozoan cysts (>LOG 3 reduction)


Originally Posted By: http://www.gov.mb.ca/waterstewardship/odw/reg-info/approvals/approval_guidelines_ag_03.pdf

Approval Guideline ODW-AG-03 Filtration and Disinfection Log Reduction Credits The treatment process for a public water system in Manitoba treating surface water or groundwater under the direct influence of surface water (GUDI) must be capable of 3-log (99.9%) reduction or inactivation of Cryptosporidium and Giardia, and 4-log (99.99%) reduction or inactivation of viruses that may be present in the source water. In keeping with a multi-barrier approach to drinking water treatment, the Office of Drinking Water recommends that at least 0.5- log inactivation of Cryptosporidium and Giardia, and 2-log inactivation of viruses be [b]attributed to disinfection processes[/b]. Microbial standards are met using filtration (physical removal) and disinfection (inactivation). Removal and inactivation capabilities vary depending on the filtration technology or disinfectant applied. Organizations such as Health Canada and the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) have recommended procedures to determine log removal and log inactivation credits for filtration and disinfection processes.

Originally Posted By: http://standards.nsf.org/apps/group_public/download.php/10589/Conservative%20Hi-Lites%20vs%20EPA%20Protocol.pdf
6.10.7 ACCEPTANCE CRITERIA Initial “go-no go” test with B. diminuta (6.10.6.5) requires at least 6-Log (99.9999%) reduction.

025 Pa. Code § 109.605. Minimum treatment design standards.

Originally Posted By: http://water.epa.gov/action/advisories/drinking/upload/2009_02_03_criteria_humanhealth_microbial_giardiafs.pdf
What is being done to reduce waterborne risks? EPA’s Surface Water Treatment Rule (SWTR) requires that public water systems filter, except in rare circumstances, and disinfect surface water and groundwater that is directly impacted by surface water; 99.9% of Giardia must be removed or killed.

Originally Posted By: http://water.epa.gov/action/advisories/drinking/upload/2009_02_03_criteria_humanhealth_microbial_giardiafs.pdf
Home and personal water treatment systems should be carefully selected. If your home water supply is subject to contamination with Giardia, you should select a system that can remove or kill 99.9% of Giardia and Cryptosporidium and 99.99% of waterborne enteric viruses and bacteria. Independent testing groups, like NSF International, evaluate the effectiveness of water treatment devices. Heating water to at least 70 o C for 10 minutes or boiling water for one minute at sea level (three minutes at high altitudes) is also acceptable.


Originally Posted By: http://water.epa.gov/action/advisories/drinking/upload/2009_02_03_criteria_humanhealth_microbial_giardiaha.pdf

a minimum removal or inactivation of 3 log 10 (99.9%) for Giardia and 4 log 10 (99.99%) for viruses through filtration and/or disinfection. The rule also lowered the acceptable limit for
turbidity in finished drinking water from a monthly average of 1.0 NTU to a level not to exceed 0.5 NTU in
95% of 4-hour measurements
. The requirements for meeting these limits went into effect in June 29, 1993.

the standard
Originally Posted By: http://www.epa.gov/ogwdw/mdbp/pdfs/qrg_mdbp_surfacewatertreatment_unfiltered.pdf

Treatment Requirements
If Arithmetic Mean Cryptosporidium Level is:
&#8804; 0.01 oocysts/L
System Must Provide Treatment to:
2-log Cryptosporidium inactivation
If Arithmetic Mean Cryptosporidium Level is:
> 0.01 oocysts/L or if PWS chooses not to monitor for Cryptosporidium
System Must Provide Treatment to:
3-log Cryptosporidium inactivation
Disinfectant System Must Provide reductio/inactivation of 4-log virus, 3-log &#9658; Giardia lambia and 2- or 3-log Cryptosporidium inactivation.

All of these REPEAT the 4-3-3-filter minimums of 99.99% 4-log-virus/99.9% 3-log-giardia-lamblia/99.9% 2-log-cryptosporidium
(or 4-3-2 if TESTING detects low crypto levels) and they all require/include RESIDUAL disinfectant (chlorine smell)
SWTR / SDWA Drinking Water Standards : Surface Water Treatment Rule
EPA 816-F-10-074 Comprehensive Surface Water Treatment Rules Quick Reference Guide: Systems Using Conventional or Direct Filtration PDF (4pp, 518K)
EPA 816-F-10-076 Comprehensive Surface Water Treatment Rules Quick Reference Guide: Systems Using Slow Sand, Diatomaceous Earth, or Alternative Filtration PDF (4pp, 429K)
EPA 816-B-10-001 Comprehensive Surface Water Treatment Rules Quick Reference Guide: Unfiltered Systems PDF (4pp, 467K)
frequently frequent poop bacteria counting rule EPA 816-F-01-035 Total Coliform Rule: A Quick Reference Guide PDF (2pp, 405K) Regulated under IESWTR and LT1ESWTR
LT2ESWTR LT2 ESWTR Surface Water Treatment Rule | US EPA
EPA 816-R-11-009 SWTRPlainEnglishGuideFinal Surface Water Treatment Rules: What do they mean to you? (PDF) (94 pp, 658K) October 2011 Office of Water (4606M) http://water.epa.gov/drink/
SWTRPlainEnglishGuideFinal Surface Water Treatment Rules: What do they mean to you? (PDF) (94 pp, 658K)
Water on Tap: What You Need To Know | US EPA
Drinking Water Contaminants | US EPA
Originally Posted By: http://www.sawyer.com/msds/SP194.pdf

Do not let your filter or reservoirs be exposed to excessive heat, greater than 115 degrees (i.e. in a hot car) or 46.11 degrees celsius

Originally Posted By: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070728120624AAsXiaJ
What is the lowest temperature water will scald the the skin of a human?
A safe temperature for hot water is 110
Quote:
° F, which exposure to results in third degree burns in approximately ten hours.3 Even though this is a 'relatively-safe' temperature, exposure to water set at 110
Quote:
° F is painful; the human pain threshold is around 106-108
Quote:
° F. It is important to remember that 212
Quote:
° F is the boiling point of water, meaning that the temperatures at which exposure to water will result in burns is much less than the boiling point of water.

A quote from book_waterontap_full.pdf is in a footnote confused
Originally Posted By: http://water.epa.gov/drink/guide/upload/book_waterontap_full.pdf

EPA's surface water treatment rules require systems using surface water or ground water under
the direct influence of surface water to (1) disinfect their water, and (2) filter their water or meet
criteria for avoiding filtration so that the following contaminants are controlled at the following levels:
Cryptosporidium: 99 percent removal for systems that filter. Unfiltered systems are required to
include Cryptosporidium in their existing watershed control provisions.
Giardia lamblia: 99.9 percent removal/inactivation
Viruses: 99.99 percent removal/inactivation
• Legionella: No limit, but EPA believes that if Giardia and viruses are removed/inactivated according
to the treatment techniques in the surface water treatment rule, Legionella will also be controlled.
Turbidity: For systems that use conventional or direct filtration, at no time can turbidity (cloudiness of
water) go higher than 1 nephelolometric turbidity unit (NTU), and samples for turbidity must be
less than or equal to 0.3 NTU in at least 95 percent of the samples in any month. Systems that use
filtration other than conventional or direct filtration must follow state limits, which must include turbidity
at no time exceeding 5 NTU.
HPC: No more than 500 bacterial colonies per milliliter
• Long Term 1 Enhanced Surface Water Treatment; Surface water systems or ground water systems
under the direct influence of surface water serving fewer than 10,000 people must comply with the
applicable Long Term 1 Enhanced Surface Water Treatment Rule provisions (e.g. turbidity standards,
individual filter monitoring, Cryptosporidium removal requirements, updated watershed control
requirements for unfiltered systems).
• Long Term 2 Enhanced Surface Water Treatment; This rule applies to all surface water systems
or ground water systems under the direct influence of surface water. The rule targets additional
Cryptosporidium treatment requirements for higher risk systems and includes provisions to reduce
risks from uncovered finished water storages facilities and to ensure that the systems maintain microbial
protection as they take steps to reduce the formation of disinfection byproducts. (Monitoring
start dates are staggered by system size. The largest systems (serving at least 100,000
people) will begin monitoring in October 2006 and the smallest systems (serving fewer than
10,000 people) will not begin monitoring until October 2008. After completing monitoring and
determining their treatment bin, systems generally have three years to comply with any additional
treatment requirements.)
• Filter Backwash Recycling: The Filter Backwash Recycling Rule requires systems that recycle to
return specific recycle flows through all processes of the system's existing conventional or direct
filtration system or at an alternate location approved by the state.
8 No more than 5.0 percent samples total coliform-positive in a month. (For water systems that collect
fewer than 40 routine samples per month, no more than one sample can be total coliform-positive
per month.) Every sample that has total coliform must be analyzed for either fecal coliforms or
E. coli. If two consecutive TC-positive samples, and one is also positive for E. coli or fecal coliforms,
system has an acute MCL violation.
9 Although there is no collective MCLG for this contaminant group, there are individual MCLGs for
some of the individual contaminants:
• Haloacetic acids: dichloroacetic acid (zero); trichloroacetic acid (0.3 mg/L)
• Trihalomethanes: bromodichloromethane (zero); bromoform (zero); dibromochloromethane (0.06 mg/L)

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#263777 - 09/29/13 12:21 PM Re: Emergency water (gallons, EPA LT2 ESWTR ) [Re: haertig]
JPickett Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/03/12
Posts: 264
Loc: Missouri
Uh, Thanks, EMP

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#263779 - 09/29/13 12:34 PM Re: Emergency water (gallons, EPA LT2 ESWTR ) [Re: JPickett]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
I think I will just boil my water, thank you.
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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