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#261913 - 07/17/13 09:29 PM Re: Build a Wilderness First Aid Kit [Re: MDinana]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1578
Loc: Ocala, FL
The active ingredient in the five antacid packets included in the kit is calcium carbonate. What I was asking is, do I include Diotame (Bismuth Subsalicytate)?

Approximately half the kits I put together each year go to Guatemala where the water is not even safe to drink. Should that be used in place of the antiseptic towelettes? One kit a year goes to villages in Africa where there is no running water.

The entire organizer can be removed. Then everything is disorganized. Ziplock bags can be used; even then, the untrained caregiver has has to hunt for what she needs.

As I said, the gauze rolls are in their own compartment so removing, altering or replacing them will save no space unless, of course, I remove the organizer.

The four 4” x 4” gauze pads are individually wrapped and together are 3 cm thick when compressed. These kits are designed for nonprofessionals. Therefore, I need to make this as easy for them as possible, another reason for leaving the organizer in.

This is a passion of mine but I only have a part-time job. The kits I am starting out with represent the best bang for the buck I have seen so far. I'm having to do budget triage. That means, use what was included as much as possible. The first aid guide included in the kit is almost useless for this environment. Therefore I have to include a used copy of A Comprehensive Guide to Wilderness & Travel Medicine.

Not including additional medication, this is what I have so far. Areas in bold represent what I will add.

21 Antiseptic Towelettes
36 Alcohol Pads
06 Sting Relief Pads
06 Antibiotic Ointment Packets
06 Burn Cream Packets
05 Antacid Packets
05 Aspirin Packets
05 Non-aspirin Packets
01 Elastic Bandage, 2 in
01 Duct Tape
01 A Comprehensive Guide to Wilderness & Travel Medicine

01 Instant Cold Compress
20 Adhesive Bandages, 1 in x 3 in
60 Adhesive Bandages, ¾ in x 3 in
50 Adhesive bandages, 3/8 in x 1-1/2 in
10 Butterfly Bandages
18 Wound Closure Strips
01 Irrigation Syringe
01 Povidone-Iodine 10% Solution
02 Benzoin Swabs

02 Gauze Rolls, 2 in x 4 yd
02 Eye Pads
08 Sterile Gauze Pads, 2 in x 2in
04 Sterile Gauze Pads, 4 in x 4 in
01 Sterile Trauma Pad, 5 in x 9 in
30 Cotton Tip Applicators
01 Adhesive Tape Roll, 1 in x 5 yd
01 Triangular Bandage, 40 in x 40 in x 56 in
05 Finger Splints
02 Pairs Examination Gloves
01 Small Scissors
01 Plastic Tweezers

This is what everything I have listed will cost me. Some items listed do not include the cost of shipping.

$21.63 First Aid Kit
$03.96 A Comprehensive Guide to Wilderness & Travel Medicine
$00.82 Elastic Bandage
$02.71 Duct Tape
$00.56 Irrigation Syringe
$00.47 Povidone-Iodine 10% Solution
$00.80 Benzoin Swabs
$30.95 Subtotal

I have two packets of Oral Rehydration Salts. They will be included in the next kit which is going to India later this year. If I buy them in bulk, I can get packets of Oral Rehydration Salts at $0.80 each.

Does anyone have experience with a first aid kit that offers a better bang for the buck then this one?

http://www.samsclub.com/sams/first-aid-center-326-pieces/196928.ip?navAction=push

Also, does anyone actually know a place where I can get quality supplies at a lower price than at Chinook Medical Gear?

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"A grain of wheat must fall to the ground before it can do any good. New life springs from fallen grain." -- Fleda Claes Johansson

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#261916 - 07/18/13 02:28 AM Re: Build a Wilderness First Aid Kit [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1578
Loc: Ocala, FL
Update: The India mission has been postponed to January.

I talked to a missionary who went to Africa about what is being discussed here. Do not remove the organizer.

I did not catch everything said; two ladies going to Guatemala talked about how useful alcohol pads are. Something about how useful they are when something else is not available. I did not catch what that something else is. Also, all medications need to be in their original packaging. If I had arrived earlier, I may have gleamed more information. That is all I got.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"A grain of wheat must fall to the ground before it can do any good. New life springs from fallen grain." -- Fleda Claes Johansson

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#261917 - 07/18/13 12:12 PM Re: Build a Wilderness First Aid Kit [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2184
Loc: Deep south... Carolina
For some reason I kept thinking Tums (Calcium carbonate), not bismuth (aka Pepto). If you're going to take one, take the bismuth - it can be used for upset stomach as well as tums, but has the additional anti microbrial properties. Like I said, it's not a "cure" medicine, but may help reduce the amount of bacteria causing illness. FYI, being a salicylate, people with allergies to aspirin/motrin/naproxen/NSAID's or stomach ulcers should avoid it.

Given that the water "isn't safe to drink" (Which, really, it probably is - given that the locals drink it, right? Just us tender Americanos have wimpy stomachs), how do you plan on treating it? You can use treated water with soap for cleaning. Antiseptic towlettes are OK for a quick and dirty clean, but they don't actually remove dirt or much particulate matter, they just kill whatever it touches. So you essentially have really germ free hands with dirt on them. Once that dirt dislodges, germs get exposed. Soap/water moves all that away. Better if you use hibiclens (or similar) or one of the anti-bacterial soaps. But even your basic 69-cent soap will clean better than a towlette, you just have to scrub.

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#261918 - 07/18/13 12:57 PM Re: Build a Wilderness First Aid Kit [Re: MDinana]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1578
Loc: Ocala, FL
Originally Posted By: MDinana
For some reason I kept thinking Tums (Calcium carbonate), not bismuth (aka Pepto). If you're going to take one, take the bismuth - it can be used for upset stomach as well as tums, but has the additional anti microbrial properties. Like I said, it's not a "cure" medicine, but may help reduce the amount of bacteria causing illness. FYI, being a salicylate, people with allergies to aspirin/motrin/naproxen/NSAID's or stomach ulcers should avoid it.

The calcium carbonate will remain because it came with the kit. I was wondering if I should add the Bismuth Subsalicytate. You answered my question. Thanks.

Originally Posted By: MDinana
Given that the water "isn't safe to drink" (Which, really, it probably is - given that the locals drink it, right? Just us tender Americanos have wimpy stomachs), how do you plan on treating it? You can use treated water with soap for cleaning.

For treating water to clean a wound, I included Povidone-Iodine.

Originally Posted By: MDinana
Antiseptic towlettes are OK for a quick and dirty clean, but they don't actually remove dirt or much particulate matter, they just kill whatever it touches. So you essentially have really germ free hands with dirt on them. Once that dirt dislodges, germs get exposed. Soap/water moves all that away. Better if you use hibiclens (or similar) or one of the anti-bacterial soaps. But even your basic 69-cent soap will clean better than a towlette, you just have to scrub.

Oh. I think I know where we got lost. I did not mean to imply that towelettes were meant to clean the hands of the caregiver, unless there's nothing else available, but for treating a patient for minor things like cuts.

Thank you for your help.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"A grain of wheat must fall to the ground before it can do any good. New life springs from fallen grain." -- Fleda Claes Johansson

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#261920 - 07/18/13 02:17 PM Re: Build a Wilderness First Aid Kit [Re: MDinana]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1578
Loc: Ocala, FL
Originally Posted By: MDinana
I'd ditch all the packets of antibiotic ointment and just throw a tube of neosporin or bacitracin in, and call it good. If needed, it can be applied with a clean rag, bandage, finger, etc, and rubbed onto the wound. Plus it'll probably have more applications per unit size.

Ditch the burn cream. Nothing bacitracin or neosporin doesn't cover. If the burn is bad enough, cover with a dry bandage and evac.

As you read in yesterday's post, I went into why I need to keep what was included in the kit as much as possible and a breakdown of the cost of the kit and some added items. Are there situations in which burn cream can be used in place of antibiotic ointment? If so, what are they?

After crunching the numbers, it appears the best option is to leave in the packets and add a tube antibiotic ointment.

Originally Posted By: MDinana
As for bleeding control, quick clot, TQ's, etc. If there's a bad bleed, you can never have enough gauze. A few 4x4's, 2 gauze rolls, and 1 or 2 5x9's will be gone in a heartbeat. It may be worthwhile to have a small trauma kit set aside, but again, may be budget prohibitive.

After including the cost of the tube of antibiotic ointment, the cost per kit is $34.95. If I add a second 5” x 9” trauma pad, the cost is $35.14. If I add QuikClot Sport, 25gr instead of a 5” x 9” trauma pad, the cost is $47.94. If I add a SWAT-T Tourniquet instead of the 5” x 9” or QuikClot, the cost is $44.63. Both put me past $40 and QuikClot is approaching $50 and I have yet to include the cost of the medications or the shipping of some items. Something has to go.

In the order of most to least important, what are the priorities?

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"A grain of wheat must fall to the ground before it can do any good. New life springs from fallen grain." -- Fleda Claes Johansson

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#261921 - 07/18/13 02:31 PM Re: Build a Wilderness First Aid Kit [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Russ Online   content
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4594
Loc: SOCAL
I have nothing to add, but wanted to say this is a great thread. The discussion on trade-offs -- including some items and dropping others, while keeping to a physical size limit, constraints of the physical kit (dividers, et al) and overall cost is an excellent cost/benefit exercise. Thanks to all.

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#261924 - 07/18/13 08:19 PM Re: Build a Wilderness First Aid Kit [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1578
Loc: Ocala, FL
In a two-year period, I build ten first aid kits, give or take. Bismuth Subsalicytate, 250 packets per box, has a shelf life of two years. Diphenhydramine, 200 packets per box, also has a shelf life of two years. To avoid waste, I can add twenty-five packets of Bismuth Subsalicytate or twenty packets of Diphenhydramine but not both unless I take stuff out which I prefer not to do.

Which do I add, the twenty packets of Diphenhydramine or twenty-five packets of Bismuth Subsalicytate?

Edit: If both are equally needed, I can play “musical chairs” with the medication packets and alcohol pads resulting in the kits not being identical, meaning one kit would have more of one item than another with the removed items going into kits used for other purposes.

Edit: I was off on my calculations making it more difficult to play “musical chairs” with the medications. I'm leading toward Diphenhydramine. The kit already has five packets of calcium carbonate.

Jeanette Isabelle


Edited by Jeanette_Isabelle (07/18/13 11:42 PM)
_________________________
"A grain of wheat must fall to the ground before it can do any good. New life springs from fallen grain." -- Fleda Claes Johansson

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#261929 - 07/18/13 11:33 PM Re: Build a Wilderness First Aid Kit [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
MoBOB Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 1214
Loc: here
In the way adding to the conversation - I have nothing. What I want to say is this: Thank you Jeanette for having a passion for something and benefiting others with it. I am humbled by your graciousness and willingness to answer a call to help.
_________________________
"Its not a matter of being ready as it is being prepared" -- B. E. J. Taylor

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#261930 - 07/19/13 02:03 AM Re: Build a Wilderness First Aid Kit [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
hikermor Online   content
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 5998
Loc: southern Cal
Originally Posted By: Jeanette_Isabelle


In the order of most to least important, what are the priorities?

Jeanette Isabelle


I have stopped lots of bleeding without Quik Clot. Given its high cost, it would be the first thing out of the kit IMO.

This is a very interesting and productive thread, but we haven't discussed the most important component of any kit - the level of training of those receiving and using the kit. that would be a good place for any extra finances you might have lying around.....
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#261934 - 07/19/13 03:15 AM Re: Build a Wilderness First Aid Kit [Re: hikermor]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 979
Loc: Channeled Scablands
Originally Posted By: hikermor

This is a very interesting and productive thread, but we haven't discussed the most important component of any kit - the level of training of those receiving and using the kit. that would be a good place for any extra finances you might have lying around.....


Recommendations for a good lightweight texts for travelers should be handed out
too. I liked the medicine for mountaineering. There may be better ones depending
on travel location.

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