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#261761 - 07/11/13 03:35 AM Re: Build a Wilderness First Aid Kit [Re: nursemike]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2047
Loc: Colorado
If something from the kit is to go, to make room for something else, I would vote to nuke the burn creme packets. You don't want to put that stuff on a second or third degree burn, although I guess it would be OK for a first degree one. But all-in-all, burn creme is pretty useless at best. A dry sterile dressing is what you want over a burn.

For attaching dressings: First there was tape. Then "roller gauze". Then "Kling" wrap. Then "Kerlix". Now there is "Coban" (a.k.a. "coflex"). I don't know if anything came between Kerlix and Coban. We were still using Kerlix when I was a paramedic. Now we're using Coban. But I've been out of the medical field since the Kerlix days. Kerlix definitely was better than either Kling or roller gauze, but it was also much bulkier, so didn't fit into FA kits as nicely. None of these substitute for an Ace Wrap (a.k.a. "elastic bandage").

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#261762 - 07/11/13 11:59 AM Re: Build a Wilderness First Aid Kit [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3048
Loc: USA
Very nice work! If you have room and budget, I'd suggest more gloves.

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#261763 - 07/11/13 12:07 PM Re: Build a Wilderness First Aid Kit [Re: haertig]
hikermor Online   content
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6740
Loc: southern Cal
Great thread and hugely informative. Like others, I thank J-I for putting her time and effort into this topic. But I do have a question. Isn't there a difference between the optimum kit for a wildern ess (roadless, natural setting)and third world (higher chance of infectious disease, lots of contact with strangers)? In wnat I define as wilderness, weight of items carried is always a consideration and your first aid kit contains a few core items (sterile dressings, Ace bandages) and knowledge of other items in your gear that can be converted to first aid applications (duct tape, stays from your baackpack = splints)
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#261767 - 07/11/13 01:49 PM Re: Build a Wilderness First Aid Kit [Re: haertig]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1972
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
Originally Posted By: haertig
If something from the kit is to go, to make room for something else, I would vote to nuke the burn creme packets. You don't want to put that stuff on a second or third degree burn, although I guess it would be OK for a first degree one. But all-in-all, burn creme is pretty useless at best. A dry sterile dressing is what you want over a burn.

The packets of burn cream and packets of antibiotic ointment have their own compartments so removing them would not save space. The two compartments combined can easily hold twenty cream/ointment packets. The kit comes with a total of twelve cream/ointment packets.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." -- Frederick Henry Royce

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#261768 - 07/11/13 02:01 PM Re: Build a Wilderness First Aid Kit [Re: chaosmagnet]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1972
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
Originally Posted By: chaosmagnet
Very nice work! If you have room and budget, I'd suggest more gloves.

Thank you. The kit comes with a reorder form and what they charge for each pair of gloves in a bag, plus shipping, is ridiculous. Do you know where I can buy a pair of gloves in a bag for less?

The kit has room for more bagged pairs of gloves.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." -- Frederick Henry Royce

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#261770 - 07/11/13 02:20 PM Re: Build a Wilderness First Aid Kit [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
boatman Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/10/03
Posts: 424
Loc: Michigan
Jeanette Isabelle,check out uniform rental places.Many also provide a service to stock first aid kits in factories.Tell them what you are providing and they may even donate to the cause.....

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#261772 - 07/11/13 03:25 PM Re: Build a Wilderness First Aid Kit [Re: nursemike]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1972
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
Originally Posted By: nursemike
Similar argument for diphenhydramine and loperamide. IIRC, Usual dose for antihistamine is 25-50 mg every 4 hours, antidiarrheal is 2 tabs after first episode and one after each succeeding episode to a max of 4 per day. You have about one days treatment for one patient in each category. Is that enough? depends on the severity of the illness, and if the patient can get to a definitive care provider within a few hours. May not be economically feasible to provide more than this in a first kit.

I should mention that the kit comes with compartments for medications which are the same size as the compartments for the alcohol pads and sting relief pads. The antiseptic towelettes would not practically fit in these compartments so they are located somewhere else.

Therefore, if I remove the alcohol pads (which takes up two compartments) and sting relief pads (which takes up one compartment), I would have room for a total of sixty packets of medications. The kit came with a total of fifteen packets of medication (Antacid Packets, Aspirin Packets and Non-aspirin Packets). If I do not remove the medication, the alcohol pads and sting relief pads the kit came with, I can add thirty more packets of medication. How much diphenhydramine and loperamide should I include for a ten-person kit?

Originally Posted By: nursemike
Hemostats are useful for removing bigger splinters, and have a high general utility value: emts and nurses generally carry both, and it's probably hard to get into trouble with them.

I still have my doubts about using a hemostat. The kit comes with those cheap “plastic tweezers” which I have considered replacing with Uncle Bill's Tweezers. Should I have both the plastic tweezers (in case they provide some benefit) and Uncle Bill's Tweezers or completely remove the plastic tweezers?

Originally Posted By: nursemike
Oh-coban/vet wrap is great for securing dressings, not so good for elastic bandage applications: hard to reuse coban, while an ace lasts a long time.

I have space for one roll of CoFlex or one elastic bandage, not both. Removing the two gauze rolls the kit came with would not save space as the compartment for them is not much use for much of anything else. What small items that can fit in that space is likely to fit in other parts of the kit.

On the other hand, I have considered adding a 2” roll of duct tape. If I do not add the duct tape, I could put in a 2” elastic bandage in addition to the one roll of CoFlex. In short, I have a choice of duct tape, one roll of CoFlex and an elastic bandage: I can pick two.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." -- Frederick Henry Royce

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#261773 - 07/11/13 03:38 PM Re: Build a Wilderness First Aid Kit [Re: hikermor]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1972
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
Originally Posted By: hikermor
Great thread and hugely informative. Like others, I thank J-I for putting her time and effort into this topic. But I do have a question. Isn't there a difference between the optimum kit for a wildern ess (roadless, natural setting)and third world (higher chance of infectious disease, lots of contact with strangers)?

Thank you and you are right. There is a difference between a wilderness kit and what I'm building.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." -- Frederick Henry Royce

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#261774 - 07/11/13 03:48 PM Re: Build a Wilderness First Aid Kit [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3048
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Jeanette_Isabelle
Thank you. The kit comes with a reorder form and what they charge for each pair of gloves in a bag, plus shipping, is ridiculous. Do you know where I can buy a pair of gloves in a bag for less?


I wouldn't bother bagging them. Or I'd buy the gloves in bulk and then put them in cheap sandwich bags.

Quote:
I still have my doubts about using a hemostat. The kit comes with those cheap “plastic tweezers” which I have considered replacing with Uncle Bill's Tweezers. Should I have both the plastic tweezers (in case they provide some benefit) and Uncle Bill's Tweezers or completely remove the plastic tweezers?


I would definitely pitch the plastic tweezers and put in some metal ones, the Uncle Bill's are an excellent choice if a bit pricey.

Quote:
I have a choice of duct tape, one roll of CoFlex and an elastic bandage: I can pick two.


Duct tape and elastic bandage. Here's why: Duct tape can do everything CoFlex can do and more. Nothing beats an elastic bandage for certain soft tissue injuries.

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#261776 - 07/11/13 03:56 PM Re: Build a Wilderness First Aid Kit [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
JPickett Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/03/12
Posts: 264
Loc: Missouri
Jeanette_Isabelle, have you considered Pepto-Bismol (and generic) tablets as an alternate anti-diarrheal? My understanding is the bismuth salts have anti-microbial effects in the G.I. tract as well as mechanically slowing the movement of material in the tract. I made a half dozen missions trips to Peru amd Mexico 10+ years ago and had no G.I. problems while others in my group did. I made it a habit to take 2 tablets with each meal and 2 tablets upon retiring. I wouldn't call this proof, but if I ventured back to Peru I would certainly take my pepto with me.

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