Although not among the more common Armageddon scenarios we discuss here, I believe Equipped regulars may well enjoy a viewing of the new remake of the classic horror film Dawn of the Dead - I mean it's never to early to bone up on your anti-zombie tactics! Seriously, as this kind of movie goes, it was pretty darn good, and for fans of the TEOTWAWKI genre, well it was freakin' terrific...

5 out of 5.

I must watch this, I like brainless zombie movies.... <img src="images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Now which part of the altoid kit did I stuff my anti-zombie pills.....

<img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

HO Hum, brainless zombies shuffling about. I could have made this movie with a camcorder on the streets of Los ANgeles or the government corridors of Washington D.C. <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Ah.... Chris !

I was sure you wouldn't miss that one !!!
<img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

HAH!!

You obviously have never been to my place of employment !

This, Frenchy, is to All of Us as well. Though it Happens to be Addressed to you, here in this Thread. I Caution that it will be one of my Longish Ones. I'm Sorry that it's Turned Out to be so.

But on the Topic of Favorite Outdoor and Survival Movies!, What would some of our Favorite Outdoor and Survival Movies be!? What is Special, Beloved, or Inspiring to you?! Or perhaps just Plain Enjoyable?! Disaster, Rescue, and Escape and Such!, can Qualify as Well! So Do Westerns!

I Know that Dorgy Zombie ones Aren't Exactly One of mine! But if any Number of you Enjoy that, -Fine!

There's Jeremiah Johnson Ones and Everything Else!

Alas, Many of These just Don't Readily Come to Mind. I Do Have one of those Big Leonard Maltin paperback Movie Guides, from back around 1987 or so. But Alas!, I Think it may be over in Storage! There or Here, I'll Try to Soon Find it. And then begin Getting Together a More Complete and Comprehensive List of my Own Favorites / Some of the Greatest Ones Around! And Post Back Further with Such!

I Can, however, Say that my Very Favorite One, Both, (actually "Throth"), of Survival-Outdoors / Westerns / and of All Movies of All Time!, is "True Grit"!!! (Though "Apollo 13" has Come to Occupy a Co-Number One Place there! -See a Similar Favorite Movies Post as I shall soon Post under "Space Resolve")

Yes it's True Grit!, with of course John Wayne as Marshall Rooster Cogburn!, Glen Campbell as his Sidekick Texas Ranger Lawman La Bouef, and the Strong and Central Supporting Role of Kim Darby, Playing Good Ole Mattie Ross! Of course there's also Guys like Lawyer Dagget, Lucky Ned Pepper, the Chinaman Chen Lee, and "That was Not my Meaning!" Tom Cheyney! And Oh Yes!, his Cat, -"General Price". And Mattie's Beloved Horse "Little Blackie"!

There's Something Distinctly Special and Great!, about John Wayne!, and John Wayne Westerns / and his Movies in General!

He is an Acquired Taste with me!, or rather, an Uncovered, Once Under Surface One,-with me! For Much of my Life, I Reacted, -"John Wayne?,-So!", or "John Wayne?,-So What?!" But Once you Get to Know John Wayne!, and What He's All About!!!,....!

He, However,-is Only a Part of What I Find so Great and Special in this Movie!, -1969's True Grit! -As Great, Special, and Central a Part as he and his Rooster Character Plays!

True Grit is so Great, Special, and Spando an Outdoors and Western Movie All Around! Just Look at some of that Spectacular, Spandiferous!, Western Scenery Thruout!, to Name Just One!!! Magnificent Golden Aspens just Being a Sub-One of Those!

The Movie so Self Evidently Speaks for Itself!, in This and so Many Other Great, Special, and Spando of Ways! Outdoors and Otherwise!

Foremost of These, is What can Loosely be "Described",-as it's Overall, Central Spirit!

And the Story Itself, Rooster Himself, the Spandiferously Great American West!, the Great Western Outdoors!, the Added Specialness of Two Very Special People to me, namely John Wayne and Glen Campbell!, Glen's Very Nice and Special Song of mine, from the Movie, also Going by the Title "True Grit", the Movie's being from a Very Special Year of mine, 1969! (My Personal "Golden" or "Classical Age", High Time, Star at Zenith!, Etc!) -And so Much More!, as True Grit Goes!

But True Grit would be Just as Great and Special to me! Even Without the Additional Great Specialness of Things like John Wayne Himself, Glen Cambell, with his So Nice and Great Song "True Grit", or of it's being Of and From 69! Let Alone with These!

True Grit, along with the Much Later Co-Placeing Apollo 13, has Always Been Hands Down!,-my Very Favorite Movie of All Time! Of Survival-Outdoor Movies, Of Westerns, Of All Movies!

You can Just Feel!, the Urgency and Drama!, -in Scenes like when Mattie Ross is Trapped Down in the Snake Pit! To Again mention Just One! True Grit is by Far, the Favorite Oudoor, Survival, and Western One of Mine! Indeed, once again, -of All Movies!

Now to Tie Up a Few Loose Ends on This.

The Movie Comes with a Great Soundtrack Album as Well, -Featureing Glen's Great Title Track Song, -True Grit! Elmer Bernstein Conducts these Great, Moving, Western Themes so!

Glen's also had another Movie and Song by the Name of Norwood, Out at about the Same Time. "Ole Norwood's Coming Home!" Joe Namath also Appeared in This.

The Song Itself, True Grit now, was a Household "Word"!, Back in that Time! An Old, Warm Friend! It's within my Top 10 Most Special Songs!, of All Time! It Very Warmly, Smoothly, and Inspiringly Speaks of Mattie's Noble and Determined Quest! To Single Mindedly and Relentlessly Find the One who Killed her Father.

"-And so you Look Around to Find!, Someone Who's Kind!, Someone Who is Fearless like you!.....,The Pain of It, Will Ease a Bit!, When you Find a Man with True Grit!....,The Sadness Will Leave your Eyes!.....,You'll Wake Up and See!, a World that is Fine and Free!.....,Though Summer Seems Far!, Away!, -You'll Find the Sun! (And Here I Add a Quick and Determined "Yes you Will!",-of my Own), -One Day!" It Sensitively Speaks of Her Noble, if at Times Obstinately Bullheaded, (Far from Always a Bad Thing!), Quest So!

It's of Such a Smooth, Warm, Mellow, Easy Flowing, Upward yet Realistic Looking, Western Spirit and Flavor!

As Also is Glen's Other Great Song and Album, "Galveston"! -My Favorite Song and Album of All Time!, Bar None! Glen is incidentally my Favorite Musician / Artist of All!, as well! Other Great Songs of His, such as Wichita Lineman, By the Time I Get to Phoenix, and Gentle on my Mind, -are also Such Spando Standouts in This Way!, as Well!

As Quickly and Basically as Possible, I'll List some of my Others! Caution, the List is Longish, but then again he Did Have a Lot of Very Quality Songs! As Extensive as it is, I Do Not mention them All.

So Some of my Other Topmost Favorites of His would be;-Everything a Man Could Ever Need!, Without Her!, Oh What a Woman!, Try a Little Kindness, Dreams of the Everyday Housewife, Honey Come Back, Sunny Day Girl!, Sunflower!, Until it's Time for you to Go, If You Go Away as I Know You Must!, Friends, Where's the Playground Susie?!, I Wanna Live!, Houston I'm a Comin to See You!, Honestly Loved, I Love my Truck!, Ole Norwood's Coming Home!, Country Girl!, For My Woman's Love!, Where Do you Go When You Come to the End of the Line!?,Back in the Race! Cold December in your Heart!, And the World Keeps on Spinning!, The World I Used to Know!, Just Another Piece of Paper!, Dream Sweet Dreams About me!, Dream Baby How Long Must I Dream!?, Mary in the Morning, Arkansas!, Less of me!, A Lady Like You!, Freeborn Man!, She Understands me!, Today is Mine!, Unconditional Love!, If This is Love-Who Needs It!?, Take my Hand for Awhile!, Southern Nights!, Folk Singer, Hey Little One!, As Far as I'm Concerned!, Ah But I'd Mayswell Try and Catch the Wind!, Today While the Blossoms Still Cling to the Vine!, Gotta Have Tenderness!, Time Where Did you Go!?, Private John Q, Little Toy Trains, Little Alter Boy, and His Great Duet with Bobbie Gentry,-Sunday Morning!

He also Does some Absolutely Great Standout Versions of Other Artist's Famous Tunes! Such as "My Way" and "The Impossible Dream-To Reach the Unreachable Star!" (Frank Sinatra and Jack Jones). Or "He Ain't Heavy He's my Brother!" and "Where Do I Begin?! (-To Tell the Story of How Great a Love can Be!?)". (Which is by the Youngbloods and) Or "The Straight Life"! (Bobby Goldsboro)

In the Same Spirit and Way!, -He Shud Have also Done Versions of Songs like "I'm a Drifter!", (Bobby Goldsboro), "Homeward Bound", (Simon and Garfunkel), "Don't It Make you Wanna Go Home Now!?", (Joe South), "Traces of Love!", (Classics Four), "This Girl is a Woman Now!", (Gary Puckett and the Union Gap), "Happy Heart!", (Andy Williams), "Muddy Mississippi Line!" and "California Wine!", (Again, Both by Bobby Goldsboro), and Maybe "Walking in the Rain!" (By Both Jay and the Americans, and the Ronettes) But Evidently, Neither He Nor Anyone Else, Ever Thot of This!

I can perhaps Dig Out my Old List of Glen and His Music's Upstanding and Noble Qualities, Spirit, Flavor, Feel, Message, and Overall Persona!, -that I sometime a Wowl Back have Made! I'd be Very Happy To! Of What He and His Music are Really All About! But in that it's Stashed somewhere!, and Out of Respect for Overall Length considerations, -I'll Refrain from Such now. But They are There!, and I'd be Glad to Come Back and Share Them sometime!

Another Song of Glen's, that has been of Some Note, is his "I Knew Jesus Before He was a Superstar!" Which Came out around 70 or 71's Movie of somewhat the Same Name.

Likewise, It can Very Well be Pulled Out of the Vault or Archives Today!, and Apply to Today's Current Overdone, Over Raved Over Movie!, Along the Same Lines and Theme. It's Precisely Out of my Personal Respect and Reverence, that I Think People shud Really Cool It!, with that!

Also, in Such Close In Post September 11th Times as These! -We Shud be Far More Prudent and Careful!, of "Rubbing various Religious Sores", around the World! The President and Billy Graham were Careful about Not using the Word "Crusade"! We Shud be Likewise just as Careful and Mindful here! I Wonder if Many Have Thought of That!, that Way?!

Both Such Prudent Care there! And Glen could now again Very Well Say!, -"I Knew Jesus!,-*Before* He was a Superstar!"

I've Heard that there is a Blooper in the Movie True Grit! That someone had Left a Coke Can on a Fencepost. I've since Looked for it!, in several Reviewings, but as of yet have been Unable to Spot it!

The So Great!, Special and Spando!, American West! As another Song I Grew Up With says, -"There's a Feeling I Get!, -When I Look to the West!"....And also the Famous Phrase, -"Go West Young Man!"

Beyond just the West, though! (Which is Certainly A Great Placeing Part of Outdoor, Survival, and Such Movies as a Whole!), -What may be Some of your Great and Special Outdoor and Survival Movies?!

I've just Fondly Given my Own Very Topmost Ranking One!

I Doubtless also Have Others! But They're just Going to Have to Wait until I Dig Thru that Book! I Aim to Get Back to us on That! I Don't Beleive it will be as Long as this one. I am Sorry for another Somewhat Long One here!

Doubtless some of you Have Your's as Well! What Might they Be?! How Enjoyable? How Special? How Inspiring?! What Might have you Learned from Such? How is It a Part of your Overall Life and Experience?

Take your Times and Relay Them as They Come!, if you Wish. There is No Undue Rush!

[color:"black"] [/color] [email]frenchy[/email]

"Jeremiah Johnson" is my favorite movie. "The Edge" is also pretty decent. I just saw a really great film by the Independent Film Channel: "Touching the Void". Its also a book by Joe Simpson, which I haven't been able to read yet.

The Anthony Hopkins movie where he is the rich old man married to Elle Mcpherson. The plane he is in crashes and they are hunted by a bear.
Survival straight from the book he was reading beforehand.
My side of the mountain. Very old movie for kids about a young boy spending his holidays living in the wilderness.
Made a big impact on me as a young fella.

100% agreed!

I've Got Fond Memories too!, on Hearing "My Side of the Mountain"!, Back in 4th or 5th Grade Reading Class.

Back in the Later 80s or 90s also, I've seen Something Similar on Cable, about a Boy Making it in Canada's Great Laurentian Outdoors! I Enjoyed and Identified With that, just as Much!

"My Side of the Mountain" I'm Almost Certain, -was in the Catskills! [color:"black"] [/color] [email]wazza[/email]

I'm with Wazza. "The Edge" is a great movie. Got it on DVD.

Have any of you heard of an 80's movie called "Threads"? Man, this is a very graphic THOTW movie.

Considering where we seem to be going, "Soylent Green" is not an unreal scenario.

im a bit dissapointed that no one mentioned ANY of the MadMax movies. cmon, post-apocolyptic survival at its best! sure, there are no trees or pretty lakes to fish your meals from, but i think it still qualifies as survival...AHA! what about the kids that survived in the paradise in Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome?....theeey survived!


oh..and Castaway.
cheesy? yes.
accurate? sorta-slightly-yes

i never understood how people get killed by zombies...for example, Night of the Living Dead: .......ATTIC! there, done. you can hide up there and be completely zombie free. or even instead of taking all that time to board up doors and what not, why not just destroy the steps and hang out upstairs...? this way they cant get you and you have easy access to showers (nothing works up a sweat like zombie-bashing)...


oh, and in case you think your PZSK is a little on the light side, consider adding

this
to your xmas-list...


<3 me

just saw "the endurance" great documentary, shackelton what a great survivalist

Yes!, a Survivalist's Survivalist!
[color:"black"] [/color] [email]m9key[/email]

I Don't Want to Overly Chime In, -But in Response to your Comment, -I've got to Add "Waterworld". I Myself am Not All that Thrilled about it!, -But in the Genre as you Mention, -It's a Good One! Beats Zombies and Other Silly Stuff! <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
[color:"black"] [/color] [email]rumbaugh[/email]

Threads - if its the movie I thnk you're talking about, its when a nuke explodes above Sheffield. It follows the fate of one pregnant woman as she and others struggle to survive the aftermath. Graphic is definitely the word from what I remember.

We studied it as part of my English GCSE..... and it certainly made an impression on me. That film combined with the books "Z for Zachariah " and "Children of the Dust", both of which are post-nuclear apocalypse stories, and Macbeth as our Shakespeare play made for a pretty maudlin syllabus. <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Correct! Thats the movie!

What is "English GCSE"?

"On the Beach" with Greogory Peck as the submarine commander, and Fred Astair (The only film I have seen where he does not do any dancing.) as the wanna-be race car driver in the last uncontaminated continent in the world; Australia.

The last scenes of mass suicide and the futility of it all still brings tears no matter how many times I have seen it.

Instead of poison, Fred Astair puts his car up on blocks and races the engine in a closed garage.

Scary and heartbreaking, because there was no more chance for survival as nuclear contamination reached Australia.

Bountyhunter

GCSE (General Certificate of Secondary Education) - In Britain school kids have two exam levels. We usually take between 6 to 8 subjects at GCSE level at 16 years old, and 3 to 4 subjects at "A" (Advanced) level at 18 years old. The grades you get at "A" levels determine if you get into university, and what you can study.
"On the beach" was a novel written by Neville shute. If you haven't read his novels I would highly recommend them. Brings back memories for me of the cold war, and the MAD scarnerio. Spine-chilling stuff.

On "Threads". It Reminds me of all the Rave and Glowing Reviews about our own "The Day After"! -A TV Special we had here in America back in the earlier 80s.

Subject,-Nuclear Exchange and Aftermath. One of our Massively Watched TV Showings, as we have from Time to Time.

Just Hearing Distant Bombs going Off in the Persian Gulf, was Something! Let Alone some Other Aspects of the Presentation!

Nuclear War and Preparedness Isn't Pretty or Peachy! But in Short, Until Everyone on the World Stage is a Good Girl or Boy!, -We of the Free World West had Bettered Have Them! Countries such as North Korea Aren't Good so!

We Can't be so Emotionally Shocked or Horrified by These Showings, -that we Lose Sight of Such Factors as These! Dangerously Lose Sight so!

Though I Do Support Mutual Nuclear Limitations and Reductions. SALT and START were Good Developments on the World Nuclear Scene. [color:"black"] [/color] [email]Ddraig[/email]

Bountyhunter--

Ever since I first heard of it, I'd thought I would want to see On The Beach, or, better yet, read the book (the author, Neville Shute, wrote for the long-defunct Nashville Banner newspaper). I was elated when I found it for a dime at a yard sale.

When I finally got around to reading it, I was in an absolute blue funk for close to two weeks! Most depressing thing I've ever read. Decided I did not want to see the movie!

Truly, TEOTWAWKI--everybody, & darn near everything, dies. I realize it was written as a nuclear parable, but still...

David

"28 Days Later"

What ever happened to O levels? Gone to GCSE, now? <img src="images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Tahirih

Anyone would think from all the action on the movie thread that there is no one who reads books any more. So, I'd like to post a few favorite books and see if that will kick off a... subthread (?).

For me, it all began when I was in elementary school at about age 10. I read and was impressed by Robinson Crusoe and especially Swiss Family Robinson. That got me into the survival/adaptability mode that is still with me almost a half century later (no, I DON'T care who knows my age).

These days, I've been following with great interest and marking up Jean Auel's Earth's Children books. She has done a HECK of a lot of research on archeology and survival and it is reflected in her books. Her characters Ayla and Jondalar are two of my favorite fictional people. Ayla's ingenuity and courage to endure are traits that I hope I share and that motivate everyone in the survival field. Start with Clan of the Cave Bear and TAKE NOTES!

Tahirih
<img src="images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Huh? TEOTWAWKI????? <img src="images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Oh! Dawn breaks over marble head! The End Of The World As We Know It! Of course!

Tahirih
<img src="images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Yep O levels are gone, its GCSE's now. "6 to 8 GCSEs"? I have 11 <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. The government seem to want to indroduce some sort of diploma to replace GCSEs <img src="images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Saw the original twice in the theater when it came out. Aside from the (then) shock value of watching people get pulled limb from limb and eaten in rather too much detail (hard to imagine too little detail, really), it certainly had redeeming value in comic relief. Loved the scene where they found out what all the zombies were converging on... <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> As for the genre, this one makes me sort of sad for what "The Omega Man" could have been, if they'd really cared at all. Now, THERE's a candidate for a remake.

Anyone that was into "survival" in the late '70s or thereabouts has probably found at some point that they were a little too prepared for this sort of thing, rather than for some more realistic scenarios. Culture changes, perceptions change. "The Survivors" with Robin Williams and Walter Matthau hit a little too close to home at the time- I recognized several of my aquaintances at the time amongst the characters.

Don't laugh. If there's a message behind that, and '50s bomb shelters, and Y2K survival books, it's that some of our currently-urgent concerns may look pretty ridiculous in 25 years. I won't venture to guess which ones.

On the other hand, everyone seems to be getting awfully soft lately. I'm even almost tempted to abandon my Charter Membership in the Burt Gummer Fan Club, but that would leave me with no role models at all... <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Amen...............

Oh geez....

Ok, I followed the link to Amazon, read the blurb on "The Zombie Survival Guide : Complete Protection from the Living Dead", then followed the link from there to the book "Apocalypse End : Reign of the Dead" by Len Barnhart, and found... that it was already recommended to me by Amazon based on my past purchases.

How scary is THAT? <img src="images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

>>i never understood how people get killed by zombies..<<

Much to the distress of my parents, I had a strong infatuation with "monster movies" somewhere between the ages of 9 and 13- now too many decades ago.

The entire time was not spent in mindless fascination, though. I can, just as if it were ever called for, discourse in pseudo-learned fashion on possible relationships between our reaction to almost-human monsters (always the most popular) and evolutionary memories of competition with Neanderthals and the like, or how monsters change over time to reflect real contemporary fears that we don't want to face directly.

The real upshot of my contemplations over those years though, was the insight that any monster less intelligent than we are is essentially boring- and that, of course, applies strongly to zombies. Any threat in that category would probably kill a few unsuspecting folks taken by surprise, but... we're essentially at the top of the food chain because we're capable of being pretty nasty, as required, to stay there... and any *stupid* threat is pretty easily disposed of, once we grasp it's nature.

And that, IMHO, is a large part of the secret of our continuing cultural fascination with vampires. In the persistent mythos of vampires we face very explicitly being put down a notch in the food chain by something with the potential for more intelligence- or at least equal intelligence and vastly more experience- than we possess. That was evident at the very beginning, in Bram Stoker's original book, which turns into sort of a vast chess game between Van Helsing and the 400 year-old Count, using human beings as pieces. Fundamentally different than any other genre I can think of.

I have a question that was one of those probably originating back in the days of Henry Clay, who more or less set up the American "language". This one is primarily for British English speakers (Aussies, New Zealanders, and Canadians, etc., can speak up if they know the answer). Why are collective nouns singular (usually) in American English and plural in British English? It just seems to make more sense to me if a noun one can pluralize - even if it IS collective - is considered to be singular. Example: Ditchfield said, "the government ARE", rather than "the government IS". Why, when the word "government" is singular and has a perfectly valid plural (governments). How 'bout it? Anybody know? <img src="images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Tahirih

As far as I know, GCSE's have been around for about 15 years or more.... of course, as Ditchfield said, they're talking about changing them to another type of qualification now.

Ditchfield: Did you do your GCSE's in Wales? Thats how most people I know got 11 (me included)..... just curious.

being a big fan of some types of horror movies i had to see this movie, but with some hesitation.

the original version by romero is genius, not just for STILL being scarier then the current version but also for the social message it carried in the original movie.

its also fun to sit there with someone whos into survival watching the film nit-picking all the things they SHOULD be doing.

the new movie disappointed me on many levels the begining and ending credits were "mtv style" buzz clips with lots of static that gave me a headache.
if you saw 28 days later you basically seen the same movie with running vicious zombies.

the story was pretty thin and the special effects almost all computer done now. ( i miss the make up and prosthetic zombie make up).

to me it lacked the soul that the original movie had, where you cared about the characters.
with these guys you dont care if they live or die it all seemed so overly negative and downbeat.

there were a few major problems in the film i wont go into because of spoilers, but suffice it to say they almost ruin the film for me.

if you want dawn of the dead buy the original its better.

and on a survival note, whoever said it was right, move everything to the 2nd floor of a house and tear up the stairs. problem solved heh.

personally i would never have left the mall, id make sure to fortify the outer area and then work on extending my perimiter as much as we can even if it means moving slowly.

on another note...IF the zombie scenario was real, dont you think that the combination of hot weather and naturally rotting in general would make them harmless in no time?

end of rant...

heres a few of my favorite "teotwawki" type films.
not always good films but i liked them.
they fall into a few catagories, the begining of the end ,and after the end of the world.

in no order:

red dawn
28 days later
dawn of the dead / day of the dead
the stand (if you read it get the uncut version)
mad max / road warrior
the omega man
soylent green (this seems the most likey id say)
the quiet earth
planet of the apes
def con 4
hitchhikers guide to the galaxy (the world WAS destroyed after all).


for those of us who liked omega man / last man on earth and those type of films, you have to read the book " i am legend" by richard matheson.
its the book omega man was based on but its much better.

I've just seen Shaun of the Dead, described as the first Rom Zom Com! Its an incredibly funny spoof Zombie film, written by the guys that did Spaced (a British comedy show). Its a British independent film, so I don't know if its made it across the pond (or anywhere else) yet.

If it comes to a cinema near you, I recommend it. <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

No mention yet of what is surely the best ever "survival" movie (OK, not outdoors) using whatever may be at hand - the HOME ALONE series with that modern day "Milky Bar Kid" MaCulkin....

OK., I'll have a go... "The government are..." for example, "in agreement about" means one government in agreement. ie a number of peeples are members of that government agreeing on something (a rare occurence). Whereas goverment with a 'S' on the end means more than one government.
That's from somebody with an 'O' Level !!!, so it could well be out of date!!

The following is a quote from"Fowlers Modern English Usage". I would assume anything that differs from the quotation is simply bad English. Whilst there maybe spelling differences between the US and British, I would imagine the grammer stays the same. (I stand to be corrected..)



If I understand it correctly it is the way you phrase the sentence:
" The goverment (singular) is incompetent..."
or
The governments (plural) are incompetent.."

I think thats what Whisky69 said! <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />