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#260268 - 05/04/13 03:43 AM Re: Volunteers needed to aid scientific study by NRA [Re: clearwater]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3760
Loc: TX
Originally Posted By: clearwater
Originally Posted By: chaosmagnet
Once again, please do not discuss the politics around guns on ETS. Any further mention of it will bring action from me.



chaosmagnet


???


Let me clarify for deputies and mods alike. It is okay to mention legislation in a neutral manner. Stating some law has or is about to be passed is fine and will not incur the mods attention from here on out. I apologize for not being clear enough about this.
What will get the mods attention is the taking on one side or the other about a piece of legislation, stating an opinion about why it sucks/is the best thing ever. That always leads to flame wars, which is not go for long term survival. I did not see any issue in this thread so far.
-Blast


Edited by Blast (05/04/13 03:47 AM)
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#260272 - 05/04/13 12:35 PM Re: Volunteers needed to aid scientific study by NRA [Re: Anonymous]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2208
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
Originally Posted By: Snake_Doctor
A similar study was done in the southwest several years ago for traces of lead from bullets and shot. My shooting range is in a small canyon where the walls are eighty odd feet high so the projectiles will be buried deep as the walls collapse. I still worry about it leaching into the water table however.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't most lead from the case/powder, not the projectile?

I understand most bird shot is probably lead, and most .22lr is. However, most hunting rounds tend to have relatively small amounts of lead, and let's face it, most metals aren't prone to dissolving.

I did find this article in a fast google search, which suggests that lead poisoning in animals is from lead fragments in hunted animals, more than leached to the environment. Seems to reinforce the point of shooting only what you can kill confidently (FYI, not a hunter)
http://www.nps.gov/pinn/naturescience/leadinfo.htm

Perhaps the NRA is seeking data to refute the perception that shooting causes higher environmental lead levels?

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#260279 - 05/04/13 02:40 PM Re: Volunteers needed to aid scientific study by NRA [Re: MDinana]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2995
Originally Posted By: MDinana

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't most lead from the case/powder, not the projectile?


The case is brass (sometimes steel or aluminum), the bullet is lead, sometimes coated but lead.

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#260291 - 05/04/13 04:58 PM Re: Volunteers needed to aid scientific study by NRA [Re: Eugene]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2208
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
Originally Posted By: Eugene
Originally Posted By: MDinana

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't most lead from the case/powder, not the projectile?


The case is brass (sometimes steel or aluminum), the bullet is lead, sometimes coated but lead.


Right, I know about the case. I thought the primer had lead in it or something.

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#260294 - 05/04/13 05:48 PM Re: Volunteers needed to aid scientific study by NRA [Re: MDinana]
UTAlumnus Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 1019
Loc: East Tennessee near Bristol
It depends on what they use for the primer. IIRC several of the compounds used for primers contain lead.

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#260295 - 05/04/13 07:09 PM Re: Volunteers needed to aid scientific study by NRA [Re: UTAlumnus]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2208
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
Originally Posted By: UTAlumnus
It depends on what they use for the primer. IIRC several of the compounds used for primers contain lead.

OK. Thanks for clarifying! I'd read somewhere that reloaders got exposed to lead during their cleaning/processing phase. That didn't make sense to me if the only lead was in the projectile.

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#260297 - 05/04/13 07:22 PM Re: Volunteers needed to aid scientific study by NRA [Re: clearwater]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
and here I thought the lead issue (paticularly with indoor ranges) was from the lead particles coming from the bullet due to heat/pressure of firing and the nature of a bullet being sheared by the barrel rifling while spinning up.

Ever notice the difference in firing cast lead bullets versus jacketed bullets? Even using the same powder and primer, the amount of blast particulates are much more with cast lead. This is the reason many rounds these days are total metal jacket including the base to eliminate the exposed lead. The amount of lead in the primer is fairly small relative to that contained in a bullet.

There is considerable lead residue in a barrel that has been firing cast lead bullets -- lots. Nitrile gloves are recommended.

That's all my opinion from personal observations. If I am mistaken in my analysis of what I saw, please correct me.
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#260301 - 05/04/13 08:48 PM Re: Volunteers needed to aid scientific study by NRA [Re: clearwater]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3821
Loc: USA
Lead exposure on the range comes primarily from lead styphnate, a major component in most primers. The exposure is airborne, which is why ventilation is so important for indoor ranges. Gunpowder and cartridge cases have no lead in them. Lead exposure from handling bullets (not cartridges) is too small to worry about unless you do a lot of reloading of unjacketed bullets, in which case I'd advise you to wear gloves while handling them. While there is some lead exposure from fired bullets and shotgun pellets, my understanding is that the lead styphnate in the primers is what really counts.

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#260302 - 05/04/13 08:49 PM Re: Volunteers needed to aid scientific study by NRA [Re: Blast]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3821
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Blast
Let me clarify for deputies and mods alike. It is okay to mention legislation in a neutral manner. Stating some law has or is about to be passed is fine and will not incur the mods attention from here on out.


Sounds good to me, thank you for the clarification.


Edited by chaosmagnet (05/04/13 08:50 PM)
Edit Reason: Typo

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#260303 - 05/04/13 10:25 PM Re: Volunteers needed to aid scientific study by NRA [Re: MDinana]
UTAlumnus Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 1019
Loc: East Tennessee near Bristol
I don't reload so I don't know how much primer residue exposure there is. Another source for exposure is fumes from molten lead if they cast their own bullets.

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