Hi,

After wrestling with a 12-inch diameter pine stump yesterday that I thought was rotten, I came to two conclusions:

-The stump, though it appeares to be rotten, is as hard as a rock once you get past the bark.
-I really need a good axe for this job, not a sledgehammer.

So, should I get as large an axe as I can safely handle, or is there an advantage to something smaller? I have similar stumps to remove on this backyard landscaping project, as well as smaller stumps and some downed trees that need limbing. The area is not really accessible by a stump grinder, nor do I want to pay the $120 daily rental fee.

Also, what methods do you all use to get rid of stumps; dynamite, saltpeter, an axe and digging bar? help me look like a pro today instead of the foolish amateur I looked like yesterday! Thanks.

In our teenage years, a friend and I used black powder to blow a stump in his backyard. We had been digging for hours, and decided to use a more, umm, "expedient" method of removal. We decided that about a pound of FFG ought to do the trick, and it did, to the effect of a stump going about 20 feet higher than the roof of his parents 2 story home.
WE thought it was really neat, if loud. His parents, neighbors, and the local police dept did not agree with us, except the loud part. Many lectures ensued <img src="images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
So, lesson learned, don't use black powder to blow stumps.
Rob, I think there is a bacterial based product that causes the stumps to rot very rapidly. Ace Hardware carried it before, someone may have it in your area.

Rob--

JoeBob's right about a "stump rotter" solution. Check with a good local hardware store. Also, there'll be less for it to do if you cut the stump off as close to flush with the ground as possible. Be especially careful if you do this with a chainsaw.

As an additonal aid to decomposition (or maybe it's just structural weakening), use the tip of a chainsaw bar to cut groves & cross-groves in whatever's left exposed. If you're very careful, you can actually get below ground level this way. You can then use an axe, or even a hatchet to chop out much of the remainder.

We lost our apple tree last May in the tornado, as did our neighbor (the trees were about 20 ft apart). After I cut ours up, I worked on the stump in the manner I described (though I didn't get a chemical agent).

Several weeks later, after the neighbor removed his tree, my wife commented that I needed to go out & do something about the stump I'd left on our apple tree--it really looked bad, and that I needed to be sure that heavy clump of grass about 20 feet this side of it was cut up, as well.

We walked over to it, where I pointed out that the "clump of grass" was all that was left of my stump; the one she was complaining about was that of my neighbor! <img src="images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Also, I'd recommend against using black powder, or any other explosive, too. My wife's granddaddy used to "blast" ground hogs by pouring a gallon or so of gasoline down the hole, & throwing in a match. She said the resulting explosions shook the house, & the fireballs were sometimes spectacular.

Be careful, whatever tools you use.

David

go for the full size axe's. If you miss the stump, it will go for the ground. If you got a smaller axe it might go for you legs ( or worse <img src="images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> ). i wouldn't chouse smaller axe's for your backyard projects. You don't have to drag it 20 miles and stuff, so go for safety and power, the big one's !

Thanks for the cautions against explosive removal. This would be a fun exercise if done from a distance in a remote field! I have some pressure-treated timbers sitting on the lawn waiting to be spiked in, so my need for removal of some of these stumps is sooner rather than later. I'll probably be buying an axe and digging bar today.

As a tree grows, it sometimes picks up rocks near its base. For this reason, if you use a chain saw, buy your own with a bar long enough for you to use comfortably (even if it does not extend the full diameter of the stump). Buy extra chains and a chain sharpening tool with extra files or grinder wheels. Invest in, rent or borrow all the safety protection you can get your hands on (Hard hat, full face shield, safety glasses (redundency), shin and foot guards, leather golves, and whatever else the professionals may think you need for the job.

Something most people do not know about chains is that "safety or anti-kickback" saw chains have a bumper built in front of the each cutting tooth that prevents the chain from grabbing too much wood when it cuts. Professional saw chains do not have this bumper, but depend on the built-in bumper on each tooth. When they come packaged the built in bumper has a slightly lower height than the cutting tooth. Every time you do extensive (not the occasional touch-up sharpening as you work.) sharpening of the teeth, you have to file down the bumper on each tooth so that the clearance between bumper and tooth on the entire chain is the same. They have a step measuring device for this purpose which you should buy with the sharpening equipment. How deep a step you use depends on the power of the saw and your ability to control the saw as it cuts. Deeper clearance requires more power from you and the saw. The clearance I use on my Homelite Super Easy with a 16" bar is 25 thousands and I get a nice even shaving so long as the blade stays sharp. If you start making sawdust, it is time to resharpen the blade. If you hit something that dings even one tooth, it is time to stop, sharpen, and reset the bumper height of all the teeth. You should recheck the bumper height clearance every 4 to 5 "touch-up" resharpenings and reset as necessary.

When cutting wood, the only speeds while starting, continuing, or ending the cut is full speed or chain rotation off. First off, place yourself in a solid control position that you can control your power from. Do not try to start a cut with a slow speed, but instead control the pressure you put on the piece as you go in. If the chain binds, let go of the throttle immediately or you will burn out the clutch trying to "horse" it through. Use a wood wedge to clear the bind, back off a little, go full speed and continue the cut.

I go along with the cross-hatching of what is left, except when I get as far down into the stump as I can, I pour gasoline in the slots and set it on fire. Several fire sessions, and the stump will disappear faster than just useing tree rotting enzymes.

I personally do not like "safety or anti-kickback" chains as they slow down the amount the teeth can cut and therefore the speed at which you can cut. On the other hand, I fell quite comfortable using chain saws and I am such a safety freak in terms of what I put on when useing one. If you are new to chain saws, make your own decisions or hire someone who can do it better.

Be safe first, and good luck will follow!

Bountyhunter

Hi Rob,

Do yourself a favor and take the lazy man's approach. Buy a large bag of charcoal and lighter fluid, build a bed of coals like you would for a BBQ, but instead of in the grill, build it on top of the stump. Start this little project in the early evening so you've got time to keep an eye on it, then sit back and watch the stump disappear into a hole in the ground. This method sure beats the axe/maul/chainsaw method, and it's a lot easier on the back. You might have to do this more than once for larger stumps, but it's still a lot less strain on the body. Have fun around the "campfire" <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Can Someone Please Fill me in on the Chain Saw Kickback Phenonomon!? Back in the 70s or 80s, -I Recall once Reading an Article in either Popular Science / Mechanics, or Mechanix Illustrated, about Chainsaw Kickback! It's Important and Something I'd Like to Know! The Article and Issue has Long Been Lost, and Most of it's Details and Gist Escape me! It's been somewhat Nagging and Gnawing at me ever Since! I Do Have a Pretty Good Idea and Guess of it! But I Wouldn't Want to Trust my Fortunes on Such a Foggy Recollection and Guess! Please, the Basics and Details!, Someone. Before one of these Days I Start Using a Chainsaw! Again, If Someone Knows, Fill me in somewhat on Chainsaw Kickback! [color:"black"] [/color] [email]bountyhunter[/email]

Scott, here is a partial answer to your question. http://www.oregonchain.com/kickback.htm Chain saw manufacturers have a great deal of information on how to avoid kickback in the instruction manual. If you buy a chain saw go for quality not for price, the better saws have vibration isolation systems and inertia blade brakes as well as low kickback chains and bars. And i can tell you from experience that the inertia brake on Sthil chain saws work very well.

Used to sell the stuff to rot out tree stumps. The instructions state that large holes have to be drilled into the stump, stump rot poured on, covered with plastic for many months, then soaked with kero and burned. Several soaking and burns may be required to finish removing the stump. Personally i would go for cutting it off close and letting it rot away at it's own pace.

Thank You for the Link. This is Pretty Complete for my General Purposes. I Think it Covers Everything that Old Popular Mechanics Etc. Article Covered, and Probably some More. Thanks Again.

(BTW, I am Not Going to be Operating a Chainsaw anytime soon, and Will Make Sure I'm Familiar / Know What I'm Doing, -Before Doing so!) [color:"black"] [/color] [email]RayW[/email]

As a follow-up to this, I witnessed my neighbor across the creek at the back of my property using yet another method. He pulled out a stump, which was cut off about 3 feet from the ground, with his tractor. Took him about 10 minutes total.

Well I posted under the assumption that you were not rich.

If you can afford a tractor, you might want to try what I did to get a friends aborvite root system out after watching him flay away with a hand axe for a few hours. I took my 15 lb cast steel navy fluke anchor that I use for fishing and shoved the flukes as deep into the root mass as possible. I ran a 3/8" diameter links chain from the mandrel of the anchor to the back of my FORD (Other truck owners can forget about it.) E150 vans home made tow bar assembly, put it in low, dragged out the root system, and moved the house foundation about 3 feet. We returned the house foundation to its original site by catapualting GM trucks at the side of the house as their soft bodies do not damage the brick, and besides using them as bouy anchors, that's one of the only things they are good for.

Good luck with your new tractor.

Bountyhunter <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

On any other forum this would probably qualify as shameless flame-baiting but I am sure your civilized membership will take this in the humor it was meant!

BTW, I have neither GM nor FORD vehicles. I am one of the perverse ones who enjoy spending all my money keeping chryslers running! <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Dodge Trucks. Good Idea!

<img src="images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

David

BountyHunter--

Were you using the Ford as an axe, or to hammer a wedge in? <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

David

I guess it don't git no easier then that <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Watch that, bountyhunter...Suburbans RULE...Chevy FOREVER! <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You want an honest opinion about trucks? Being the owner of a 1995 diesel GMC Suburban, a 2000 V8 Ford Explorer, a 1996 Ford diesel E350 van, and a 1999 Dodge 5.9L dumptruck.......I can say the Suburban is the best out of the four.

Edit: By the way the Explorer is the fastest though. <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I have to agree on the Suburban.

Our '91 GMC has 239,000+ miles on it, & is still going strong. I told my wife we have to keep it until at least a quarter million!

I once "punted" a full-size Ford F150 into a full-size Chevy C10 (impact at just under 30MPH). Had I not broken a line to the oil cooler, my Suburban would still have been drivable.

David

Hey ! Is that possible ?
Or is it some kind of oxymoron, or what ??...
<img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Frenchy:

Two lines removed due to some who may be overly sensitive.

All I know is that Ford trucks have been outselling other brands for years and there has to be a reason besides my liking them. <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Here in Wisconsin, most independent contractors run Ford pickups and vans while fleet sales tend to go to other brands primarily because you can't get deep discounts on Fords. <img src="images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

My current van is a 1989 E150 with over 200,000 miles on the original cast iron 300 cu. in straight 6 cylinder. The body is finally starting to rust, but the frame and drive train are still kick-butt tough. <img src="images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Bountyhunter <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Sorry if it sounded like flame-baiting, but after going through all the possible technicalities of tree stump removal and then getting a tractor curve ball thrown in there, I felt a little levity was in order.

The part about the root mass was true; I had hoped the rest could be understood as a joke, but I may have been wrong.

Bountyhunter

I didn't mean to doubt your ability to be honest, about trucks or anything.
I just tried to make a joke. Sorry, if I failed....

As a matter of fact, I'm totally ignorant about anything mechanic (or at least, almost ...).

When I was flying ULM (Ultra Light Motorized glider), the only thing I didn't like was the noise of the motor (in fact, I had a change of opinion about that, the day I no longer heard it, while flying .... I made a fast landing that day .... <img src="images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> )

As for cars, I have found a garage owner (more of a friend now) whom I totally trust (experiences ....) and I buy the cars he sells. For some years now, he is an Opel reseller, so I drive Opels !
I'm now living near Paris, and I drive about 350km (each way) to have my car serviced in his garage. Anyway, he is much cheaper than other garages in Paris. And I visit family in the area as well...

I enjoyed the joke. I drive neither Fords nor Chevys, so I wasn't offended either way! <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

hehehe - naw, it was funny to me, too...

...especially since all 4 of these have pulled many stumps for me and all are real workhorses:

77 F250 HD V8 (now belongs to son #2)
79 F250 V8 (now belongs to son #1)
97 E350 V10 (wife's; she says son #3 can't have it, and yes, it's pulled a few big stumps)
01 F250 SD V10 (mine)

one of these years I suppose we might wear one out...

... FWIW, leaving a 3-4 foot high stump and hitching up high on it makes the pulling a lot less exciting - leverage.

Tom

bountyhunter,
You sure you don't have that reversed? In NJ Ford offers major fleet discounts. When we bought our commercial trucks the discount they gave us was much more then GM or Dodge. That is one of the reasons why we bought so many Fords, you can't beat their price for trucks that arn't half bad. It came out that for every 5 trucks we got one basically for free. The only better deal we ever got on trucks was when I bought the Dodge dump, no one wanted it because it was gas.

Paul810:

I am going strictly on hearsay about the discounts, but when I was active in the HVAC-R contracting work, most of my fellow independents ran Ford Vans.

Bountyhunter

Frenchy:

The editing was not because of anything you said but rather Minime's concern that I might be flame-baiting. Hereabouts in Wisconsin we run down each others choice of liquor, guns, clothes, houses, girl friends, lawns, sports ability, and practically anything and everything except religion, family (including wives), and national heritage and we all understand it is in fun. Minime seemed to be concerned that I might start a flaming war with overly sensitive types or maybe he thought I just wanted a flaming war, so I edited 2 lines for the politically correct bunch.

Bountyhunter