I tend to EDC a number of relatively flat objects say 3"x3" in by hip pockets. I have things like a small notebook, an aluma wallet and a cellphone. The problem is that my pants have a short lifespan since these relatively stiff objects (with rounded edges) wear the pockets in short order. Are there pants with relatively wear-resistant cloth that I can try? I need pants that I can store things in the hip pocket but still be dressy enough for work. As such, cargo pants would be sub-optimal.

Thanks.
Conway Yee

What the hell? I I posted here and it didn't take? Hi Yee, try Duluth Trading Company. They make decent looking work wear out of firehose material. I hear it wears like iron. They also make pockets and carriers out of the stuff. Hope this helps.

I am also a fan of Duluth Trading and I have several of their pants. Some of their items will work for office casual, although most are definitely for work. My favorite dig pants are made of their Fire Hose material and work great.

I also like 5.11. Some of their cargo models would work for office casual.

Pockets are fairly easily to modify and reinforce.Fabric stores will have premade pockets, ideal for replacement.

I like a small phone or camera case on the back of the belt - no wear, plenty of room and works for most work situations.

For serious outdoor use, I go for pants made of nylon or other synthetic material. In any climate where snow, rain, or wet conditions are at all likely, you want to stay away from cotton. For cooler conditions I like the Mountain Hardwear "Winter Wander Pants", or the Marmot "Scree Pants". For warmer weather there are many brands of lightweight nylon pants with zip off legs.

Carhartt pants are tough and I find they are great for work around the house etc. However since they are cotton I stay away from them for serious outdoor or potential survival situations. Likewise the Duluth Firehose pants are cotton, if I'm not mistaken.

Cotton may be OK for those of you who live in dryer climates, but can be deadly if you get wet in a survival situation.

He didn't say he want'ed them for wet weather AKSAR. He said daily carry. Even here in the desert I wouldn't recomend cotton for outdoor use during wet weather.

For my needs, I need a bit more than is available on my belt. On the belt, I already have a multitool and a pager.

For the hip pocket, I have a small notepad (Lowes equivalent of the rite-in-rain pad but MUCH cheaper, cellphone, aluma wallet that has its guts ripped out so that it can contain more stuff than an altoids can, a small nylon tote from IKEA, a paracord lanyard containing a small pocket knife: Mercator, USB drive, whistle, AA flashlight:4 Sevens).

Thanks.
Conway Yee

Is that alumawallet really waterproof Yee?

our fabric stores never have what I'm looking for. Including wide elastic, tiny curved needles of that edging my old hat band was made out of.

Some of us are in wet weather daily.

Here we go: http://www.duluthtrading.com/store/mens/mens-pants/mens-casual-pants/95109.aspx


I think this covers all the bases- synthetic fiber from DT, and expressly business casual. There are also some "covert cargo pants with pockets concealed along the thigh inseam - 5.11 and REI have examples.

Note that some of DTs Fire Hose items are treated for water repellancy. That has worked for me, which is no surprise since for the last few seasons I have been digging indoors in air conditioned comfort. I generally prefer synthetics in outdoors situations although sometimes traditional cotton denim seems to work the best - just don't get caught in bad weather.

Hikermor, those look good. The price looks good too. I may have to order a pair. Thanks for the link.

Note that I didn't say don't ever wear cotton. Blue jeans, Carharts etc are fine for some things. I'm wearing jeans as I type and am about to go out to do some chores. It's sunny and about 40 F (4 C) out today, but we still have about a foot (.3 M) of snow on the ground, which is getting pretty slushy in the sun. At night it has been dropping to below freezing. I'll probably get a little wet doing my chores, which is no big deal, since I can easily go in and get dry.

However, if I were in a survival situation it would be a different story. Trying to build improvised shelters in conditions such as today, one would likey get wet. If you were wearing cotton you could be in serious trouble when the sun went down.

In climates that are always (or almost always) dry, cotton is OK. Likewise in climates that are wet but always warm. But in my part of the world, I generally stick to synthetics for any activity where there is any significant chance I may be stuck outdoors.

Duluth has TV commercials?

Here we have the occasional shower in the desert. And wind. I've been out in it in denim, and nearly naked on occasion. Cotton is good untill then. And I have synthetics, wind and warmth layers in my gear.

No. The "gasket" is hardly worth a thing.

Thanks.
Conway Yee

I wore 5.11's for quite a while, but then I bought my first pair of VersaTac-light Pant from RailRiders. The 5.11's don't see much use these days. I also have the VersaTac Ultra light and the Winter Weather pants -- good stuff, 100% nylon.

The toughest pants I've ever had are the military issue 50/50 cotton/nylon BDU pants, temperate climate weight. The "summer weight" ones are thinner. They're slightly heavy for hiking and such, but not bad, particularly if a lighter weight shirt is worn. Wearing both the upper and lower BDU uniform on a hot day wasn't much fun. The are 50% cotton, so they don't dry all that quickly, but they're good as work pants and the like.

I'm with AKSAR, though, for the outdoors I like 100% nylon. Light, tough, dries quickly.

HJ

Back in the day I wore a lightly different BDU, but I don't recall that they were fun to wear on any day, even including cold days (in Korea AKA frozen Chosen). I really like civvie style garments!

Back before there were as many choices in nylon outdoor pants available, I sometimes used BDU style pants in 50/50 cotton/nylon. I would coat the bejeezus out of them with water repellent spray. They sort of worked OK, the water repellent coating kept them dry longer and being 50% nylon they dried somewhat quicker than cotton. And they were tough. There was an outfit that made them in other than just camo, so I didn't have to look quite so much like a "tacti-cool" geek.

However, once the all nylon pants made specifically for outdoor use became widely available I quit using the 50/50 stuff. For serious outdoor use I've never looked back.

Having lived a good portion of my life in the PNW and locations of similar climate, I can say that I have spent a number of days in near hypothermic condition because of "death cloth" as we refer to cotton. That being said, I am pretty much in blue jeans, most of the polypro and nylon garments heat me up so badly that I am soaked and uncomfortable in them as well...

"I wear 5.11 Tactical "TacLite" cargo pants. Love them"

I have a couple of pairs of those and wear them for overseas travel and also martial arts training. They are quite good for those purposes.

For general outdoors use I prefer pants that are heavy weight cotton. Mostly I work in hot climates and cotton is excellent for wicking moisture and staying dry. I just have not been able to find good new cotton cargo pants that are well made and durable.

Pete2

I like these Winter weight trousers;

http://www.haglofs.com/en-us/products/cl...pant_en-us.aspx

They are very durable and are wind proof. They are a little bit expensive but they should be durable enough to justify the price.

I will pay for quality,I HATE paying for quality and getting junk.

Given my durability needs of my pants, it would appear that most synthetic pants FAIL. While appropriate when wet, they do not last in a rough environment. Workpants would apparently be the epitome of durable pants and virtually ALL are cotton. There appear to be SOME cotton/polyester blends but only a few.

Looking at both 5.11 and Duluth Trading, the pants listed as DURABLE (e.g. fire hose) are cotton. Synthetic pants are NOT listed as being durable.

On another note, Ray Mears is a fan of Ventile outerwear coats which apparently is a cotton canvas that is largely only available in Great Britain. This is in apparent contradiction to "cotton kills." It apparently swells and becomes waterproof but I am unable to find much information about its availability in the USA. Anybody familiar with this?

Thanks.
Conway Yee

Orvis can supply single Layer Ventile Trousers in the USA.

http://www.orvis.com/store/product.aspx?pf_id=39PY

Wow! $300 for a pair of pants??? I don't think I can afford it.

Conway Yee

At one time, 5.11 offered the same pants (their original model) in either cotton twill or in a stout nylon fabric. I had a pair of each and wore them in the field. One of the cotton types ripped (through the fabric, not along a seam) on their first outing. The other cotton pair got so ratty and faded that my darling spouse (AKA the Domestic Supervisor) threw them out a few weeks ago. The nylon varieties are still in my work wardrobe; the pockets need patching, but they are otherwise unimpaired.

I have a pair of the Duluth Fire hose cotton canvas pants; I like them a lot and they are tough, as advertised, but I would hesitate to wear them in an extreme environment, especially cold and wet; I would shift to synthetics in a heartbeat.

Granted, I've never even tried on a $300 pair of pants, but surplus BDUs have never failed me. They're comfy, protective, durable, and for my money, very cost effective. YMMV.

That's a good point. I recall Les Stroud has a discussion about this in his book Survive; the benefits & trade offs of gear made with newer technical materials over more traditional ones. The latter definitely wins in the durability department.

That said, I have a pair of Exofficio outdoors pants that are a cotton / synthetic blend with a DWR coating that are perhaps a bit of a compromise. Kuhl is another brand of outdoor pants I've looked at that seem to have a good range of cotton, cotton blend and synthetic options that might be worth checking out.

I don't quite buy that as a universal concept. I don't think that newer materials/designs are automatically less durable than old school gear. It all depends on what weight of material was used, how well it was designed, and how well it was constructed. Just as hikermor noted above, I have blown out old school cotton pants in a single season of doing field work.

The "Winter Wander Pants" I mentioned earlier seem to stand up well. And they aren't $300 either. They actually sell for about $100. See a review at http://seattlebackpackersmagazine.com/mountain-hardwear-winter-wander-gear-review/

Cotton has it's place, to be sure. But having grown up in the Pacific Northwest and lived the last couple of decades in Alaska, I don't use cotton for serious outdoor activities in wet and cold climates.

http://www.milisupply.com/trousers.htm

New SAS Windproof DPM Camouflage Trousers (Ventile) are available for £60.

Probably not what your looking for being British DPM Camo.

Unfortunately West-Winds.co.uk doesn't appear to trading anymore and Ventile clothing appears to be becoming even more rare and difficult to find.

I had recently purchased a Ventile Shirt from them for around £65 ($100 USD) on sale which normally retailed for £110. I now wished I had purchased another one!

Other suppliers for Ventile Trouser both single and double layer Ventile

http://www.hilltrek.co.uk/acatalog/copy_of_Cabrach_Ventile_Trousers.html

http://www.countryinnovation.com/clothing/trousers/kestrel-trousers.html#.UXa_2j5Ft1g

A clothing manufacturer's claim of durability should not be taken as anything but marketing rhetoric. Duluth's Fire Hose pants may be great and very durable for cotton pants, but I seriously doubt they come close to the durability of nylon. Wander through the RailRiders website and you'll find they refer to their line as the "Toughest Clothes on the Planet". Is that true? Maybe, maybe not -- but they're probably tougher than most of the cotton. Just my $.02. YMMV

Ventile is a very high density weave long stable cotton fibre material. Not all cotton, nylon, polyester, polycotton or wool etc fabrics are created equal.

Material Attributes.

Comfort and warmth
Breathability
Quiet non rustling
Weight
Wind Resistance
UV Degradation
Water Resistance
Water Proof
Fire Proof
Wide Operating Environmental Temperature
Durability
Ability to Repair
Ability to dry quickly
Cost

I wouldn't say that any one synthetic fabric is superior than a natural fabric material such as Ventile as Ventile Cotton will have lots of excellent attributes, which will be useful in the Wilderness. Same issue with Polyester fleece v Wool.

Ventile had been used for around 70 years now for RAF fighter Aircrew; it still has yet to be replaced with a synthetic.

But if operating in an Environment such as a potentially very wet and windy environment i.e. Scottish Highlands then Goretex/Event/Ceramic Triple Point would probably be preferred material due to its superior attributes of Waterproofness and weight over Ventile.

I'm a big fan of these: Fjällräven G-1000 trousers
A blend of 35% cotton and 65% polyester.

Breathes really well, very comfortable (even when wet) and dries really fast. If it only rains a little I won't bother, but when it pours rain or really wet snow I'll augment with waterproof trousers (gore-tex equivalent).

For the record I also used this heavy-duty Norrönna canvas jacket for many years. 100% cotton in a very thightly woven material. This works really well in sub-zero temperatures. It works OK in sleet. In rain it's not optimal, but it won't kill you either: It takes quite a beating before you get soaking wet, and it will keep the wind out even when wet. But there is a reason I didn't buy another one, but replaced it with goretex. http://www.norrona.com/Products/0118-07/svalbard-arktis-cotton-ano-jacket-mw
The properties of these canvas-like materials have very little in common with your average daily wear cotton material, such as jeans. Jeans are close to absolutely lethal in anything but extremely dry outdoor settings.

EDIT: Recalling fond memories about the trips done with this jacket I also remember the marked shift in water repellent properties that occurs around 8-10 Celsius. Below this temperature it sort of works, it'll keep you adequately semi-dry for quite a while. Wear wool underneath and you're OK. Wear it in the rain above 10C and suddenly I was instantly soaking wet... As I said, there's a reason it is a nostalgic memory replaced with gore-tex equivalent.

Environment has a great deal of influence when it comes to selection of fabric. Cold & wet I stay clear of cotton. On a flight line with jet engines and JP-4/5/8 I stay clear of polyester and nylon prefering cotton, wool & nomex depending on season. For high wear situations it's hard to beat nylon canvas such as the heavier weight nylon pants from 5.11 & RailRiders, but cotton and nomex have their place too.

I learned about Drop Zone Tactical (DropZoneTactical.com, DropZoneTactical.com/clothing/clothing.php) on ETS a few years ago.

I spent a lot of time talking myself into trying them, since they are quite expensive for rugged wear clothing. I am glad I did. Now I wear nothing else until it is time for a truly dress-up occasion.

They are cargo pants, so that may affect your plans. The fabric is 12-ounce per yard 65/35 poly cotton blend. The pockets use the same fabric inside and are deep enough that I rarely use the cargo pockets. Knees and seat are both double layer. Waist is adjustable.

I have them in navy blue and I find that the dark color deemphasizes the external seams of patch pockets and double layers. I have simply added a blazer for events one step more formal than casual Fridays. (The navy blue is quite a bit darker than the example on the web site.)

For cold or cold/wet, I use wool. For a pant you can wear to the office try ex military wool serge or twill uniform pants. I haven't bought any recently, but they used to be available cheap and in near new shape (no one wears a dress uniform very often any more).

For warm or warm wet I still use denim. I am not comfortable with nylon around fire and Nomex is too expensive. I did once have a pair of Cordura coveralls (to cover my dive suit in nasty places) that would have made very rugged pants, but was never able to find any of that weight.

Respectfully,

Jerry