Just read about a hiker who brings just Tylenol and duct tape, improvising the rest from his pack. Is this Too minimal for a hiking kit?

Why does he have the Tylenol? Other than for personal use, meds like T have no place in a FAK. He is correct that most FA items can be modified from common objects at hand. I have done it more than once, but I much prefer to have some dedicated items in my kit. Especially are elastic or self adhering bandages, along with a 4x4 or two if we are going all out. While splints can be improvised rather easily, a SAM splint does a superior job IMHO. Bandaids are an EDC item with me (two or so tucked in my wallet) - they cut down wonderfully on the drama when someone gets an owwie.

a couple of non adherent pads, a roll of elastic self adherent tape (Coban), some cloth knuckle bandaids, and a roll of Kerlix for packing off serious wounds, and an irrigation syringe (or other pressure wash) will probably get the job done for most events

I have some otc drugs in a medicine bottle or a small plastic envelope, depending on which bag it is in.

http://ilbob.blogspot.com/2011/02/otc-meds-in-my-fak.html

each bag has some minor fa supplies like bandaids as well.

this is all for convenience and comfort rather than as serious fa equipment.

I just do not think it is useful to carry a bunch of first aid equipment with me.

I already have some duct tape, electrical tape, hankies, and a water bottle. I can easily use those if I need to flush a larger wound and bandage it.

My default FAK platform is an AMK - either one of their old ultralight kits or the new International Field Trauma kit. I always have one close by.

For those rare times when I don't carry a full kit with me, my personal minimum, and what I supplement each kit with, is: water, a bandana and/or a triangular bandage, a couple of thick maxi pads, a small pen or squeeze light, and some OTC meds (Asprin, Tylenol, Gravol, Benedryl - as well as kids versions for our son - and hand sanitizer. Bug spray, sun screen and cooling gel for burns.) I also have a pill fob with prescription meds and aspirin on my edc key chain.


Besides water and meds, my main four are:

Maxi Pads => pressure bandage, splint, their intended purpose...

Bandana/triangular => broad/narrow bandage, pressure bandage, sling, face mask, hankie, hat...

Light => FA in the dark, pupil check...

Bandaids=> I'm a mom. "They" include them when they hand out our parent cards.

I have a couple of the larger AMK FAK's, but my "Minimal first aid kit" is a small container with band-aids, a couple povidone iodine pads, neosporin and Uncle Bill's Sliver Gripper Tweezers. For the small cuts that happen routinely, that's all I need. If I need more I'll get to one of my bigger kits ... or I won't. You make your choice and take your chances.

We would all be well advised to include a couple of pairs of nitrile (or equivalent) gloves.

Great point, hikermor. Protection for first aider and patient both.

We should probably also mention a means to contact medical professionals.

I carry a couple of aspirin in case I have a heart attack and a clean handkerchief for everything else.

Served me well for the last sixty years.

My EDC includes several bandaids of different sizes in a small ziplock bag in my wallet as well as my bandana.

I carry a small but serious FAK when I go into the woods. It's geared toward trauma: cuts, OTC meds; small battle dressings, etc.

I always carry moleskin with me, as well as the cloth bandaids. The "plastic" bandaids I find are subpar and the fabric kind seem to work better for knuckles and areas that flex a lot. I have a 2x2 ziploc bag that carries the moleskin, a few bandaids and two alcohol wipes. Luckily that's all I've ever really needed to carry on my person at any time. My larger kits are in my BOB and in my car. YMMV

+1 to exam gloves

I guess we need to define minimal.

I have nitrile gloves in most of my kits, but not in the minimal kit the purpose of which is to handle small scrapes and stay small enough. The kit in my truck is far from minimalist and the GHB in my truck is also big enough for gloves. But the purpose of those kits alone warrants gloves. I guess I draw the line for minimalist below the point where gloves come into play.

If by minimal, we mean a kit that is for personal use only, I suppose one could skip the gloves. The thing is that I have used the kit for others far more often than just for myself. I first learned FA before blood was considered a toxic substance, and it has taken me a while to make the transition.

Nitrile gloves come in handy in a variety of ways, so they are well worth their miniscule weight

I agree. Gloves not only protect you, they protect your patient. Gloves are just plain smart, especially in an outdoors environment where dirt is an ever present reality. They're like as easy bit of immediate sanitation. They weigh almost nothing, take up about as much space and very cram-in-able when it comes to packing. The fact that you can also use them as as a container, child amuser, signalling device, fishing bobber, etc. are added bonuses.

Why wouldn't you carry them?

There were times when every PSK had to have a condom ( for carrying water). These days it seems every other FAK I watch on video or read on WWW has to have a tampon. Ladies stuff is highly absorbant.

Besides that, I beleive in dealing with things BEFORE they happen (an ounce of prevention ... they say). So, it is wise to use protective items. So, when you see an eye pad in a FAK, or someone suggesting it, then think of adding glasses to your outdoor gear. Whether they are sunglasses or whatever, you just don't want that branch or twig to go right in your eye.

After adding all you need, stop.
Try to be minimal and don't add any more stuff.

Just reminding everyone of a thread I wrote once about latex gloves ( maybe other gloves will work, I dont know). Once I had a gooey mess on some of my extension cables (because someone wrapped them in duct tape and left them in a hot place) and I didn't know how to clean them. The goo stuck to everything including my hands. But when rubbed with latex gloves, it was very easily "wiped out" !!! It was amazing.

In the military they teach you that your first aid is for you.In other words you use the first aid kit of the person that you are giving aid to.If you do not maintain or restock your kit,It can not help someone help you.If you go on an outing with me and you get hurt it sucks to be you.I'll still help you but you wil get the bill times two to replace what I used.
You can make a good first aid kit rather cheaply.Maxipads and vetwrap for major gashes.A tampon or two for bullet wounds and a corner off an bed sheet for a triangle bandage (cravat).Add in a box of fabric handy man variety Bandaids and a tube of triple antibiotic ointment for the booboos.This can be put in a doubled up Quart size freezer bags.You may even have some room for some 4X4'sand some tape.This cuold be carried in a cargo pocket or an outside pocket of a pack.If you get into the 4X4's, maxipads or tampons your outing should end.
HAVING SOMETHING TO STOP MAJOR BLEEDING COULD SAVE SOMEONES LIFE
(maybe your own)SO WHY NOT CARRY ONE!!!!!!

BOATMAN
John

more useful links

DIY minimal hiking kit - very nice

WFR Wilderness first responder cheat sheet - printable

I doubt you could stuff a tampon in a typical bullet wound. From what I have read by people who appear to know much more about it than I do (including some MDs on other forums) tampons are not a good choice for bullet wounds. The maxipad idea will probably work but so will gauze or a hanky.

I think the condoms, maxipads, and tampons are there for the humor value as much as being truly a useful item for the average person.

From what I have read, most doctors now recommend against the use of triple antibiotic ointment since a substantial number of people are allergic to one of the ingredients. I have also read that non-prescription topical antibiotics are not especially effective anyway.

Vetwrap seems like a good choice.

Excellent article on the DIY FAK, especially emphasizing all the items you are carrying which can be used in an emergency setting. Many backpacks use long aluminum strips as part of their frame. These are the cornerstone for an excellent splint. A foam pad can be sliced up to make a very fine cervical collar (I have done that for real). The examples go on and on....

The more remote and minimalist you go, the more meds you need to pack and the less bandaids.

Splints are easier to fabricate than ibuprofen or epi.

Pain relief?? - Just chew on willow bark!

ILBob,it is not the entry wound that a tampon is for.It is the exit wound of which can be sizably larger.Hand gun wounds do not generally have an exit.It is rifle wounds that do.I am saying this in a hunting/accidental discharge idea.Tampons can also be used to improvise a crude water filter.I know it does not get out all the nasties but it can remove a lot of sediment before boiling or chemical treatment.Water filters can and have broken on people.Maxipads are an easily available and cheap option for a compress bandage.In the Navy and SEABEES we would call battle field dressings maxipads.Triple antibiotic ointment works for me.The last thing I want is to die from a staff infection from a splinter when an antiseptic or antibiotic can take care of it.JMHO,YMMV,etc.....

BOATMAN
John

True. I find that most kits have far fewer meds than I carry.

Not really. Two Ibuprofen work better for me than a 5mg/325mg Oxycodone/Apap.

Vicoden has no effect on me whatsoever. Ipubrofen works much better for me.

I'm with Izzy on the Tylenol for fever.. I reserve its use strictly for fever....ibuprofen for pain and muscle relaxant...my key fob has aspirin, immodium, and ibuprofen

I agree it is tough to make drugs in the field. I can make a bandage, but aspirin is a lot harder. I have a couple small drug packages I made up.

http://ilbob.blogspot.com/2011/02/otc-meds-in-my-fak.html

Meds fall under my " so small yet so useful" edc tools/preps...

Just a thought, no body carries anything for poisoning. Syrup of ipecac is the usual recommendation - to induce immediate vomiting(except for some items, mostly corrosives and acids). This is not much of a big deal if you are dealing with adults, but if you might have children or are involved with Scouts or something like that (anyone we know?), poisoning is somewhat more probable, and a purgative might make your short list of FA items. Just depends on circumstances....

I got on this line of thought when I was cleaning up in the backyard and found a bottle of herbicidesitting in the weeds. Just a few days earlier, my neighbor's delightful young boys had been over, gorging themselves on oranges and everything else in sight. I need to find our bottle of ipecas.....

Apparently, syrup of ipecac is no longer recommended: http://www.poison.org/prepared/ipecac.asp .

Thank you very much for the update. One has to wonder what the best course of action might be when impossible to call the Poison Control Center. Any options at all?

Do not try to make your child vomit. If your child has swallowed a strong acid, such as toilet bowl cleaner, or a strong alkali, such as drain or oven cleaner, vomiting could further injure him by bringing the burning substance back up through his throat and mouth. Dilution with water or milk is sometimes recommended but first check the container for MSDS information and recommended treatment. Never assume.

Poison Help
1-800-222-1222 is a nationwide toll-free number that directs your call to your local poison center.

Call 1-800-222-1222 if you have a poison emergency. This number will connect you right away to your nearest poison center. A poison expert in your area is available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Also call if you have a question about a poison or poison prevention. You can find prevention information at http://poisonhelp.hrsa.gov.

Be prepared. Post the Poison Help number by every phone in your home and program the number in your cell phone. Be sure that caregivers and babysitters know this number.

Where the phone is not available, I think your best move is to trigger your PLB or evacuate your casualty, but not to offer anything by mouth unless you know what was ingested and you're sure about how to treat it.

"meds like T(ylenol) have no place in a FAK."

This advice makes no sense at all to me.

I was stumped by this at first too. I missed the "except for personal use" part.

Ideally, adults should have and administer their own meds, and parents should do the same for their kids. I do keep prescription and otc meds in my FAK and in a pill fob on my key chain - but - they're intended for me and my family, not for strangers. Maybe it's my training, but i'm just not comfortable giving out meds so i don't plan to. I will give away gauze, band aids, CPR, etc. though.

I have always considered 'First Aid' to be keeping someone alive until 'Secondary Aid' arrives or, rarely, assisting their evacuation to 'Secondary Aid" with immobilisation and so on.

Giving pain killers and using plasters is just dealing with minor niggles which do not need 'Secondary Aid'. Really just dealing with the day to day events of life, scratches and bruises.

What is the official definition of 'First Aid"?

Exactly. Sometimes being able to treat those things can have a significant positive morale impact. Other times they can keep an unpleasant event from becoming an emergency.

Thank you, Jacqui. The basic is that in normal first aid, you do not offer meds to the patient. What you might choose to take yourself, or provide your children is an entirely different matter. I am sure most of us carry some kind or another of NSAID or whatever for personal use.

A year or so ago, I was leading a hike on a remote island 9San Miguel) and one of the party asked a buddy to get a Tylenol when they returned to the boat. We were a good 45 minutes from the beach, and it was at least another half hour or so out to the boat. I had a packet of T with me, and I offered it to them. It's OK to provide something like that, if they initiate the transaction. Perhaps a fine point, but fairly important.

I note that Red Cross FA kits now include a packet of two 81mg aspirin tablets. This is a change from the old days, and I believe they are included for administration to a potential heart attack victim.

It is also abundantly clear that I need to get myself into an updated FA class of some sort. Probably nothing more dangerous than a rusty EMT.

first aid is different for different people.

I can tell you that if my family first aid kit did not have bandaids, Tylenol, aspirin, motion sickness pills, and a few other basic meds - I'd be as good as DEAD. My wife would probably just kill me. Which, I suppose, would leave more food for the remaining humans :-)

Those "little things" are big deals when families are involved.

Poisoning would be a tough situation in a real survival situation. I can't imagine a practical scenario where it would happen ... except perhaps kids eating the wrong type of mushrooms or toddlers eating something way out of line. But in a real survival scenario - it tends to imply that parental surpervision is 100%. Becuase the chances of dialing the Poison Control Center would be slim to none. I would try dilution, and possibly some ground up charcoal. The chances that my kids would have eaten strong acid or alakali is pretty much zero, and anything else I would want to get out of their system as fast as possible.

cheers,
Pete

I think this is very sound thinking if one cannot call for or otherwise get better advice. The problem with "don't make them vomit it up" is that it makes a lot of sense if you have the capability to call for help. If you are out in the middle of nowhere and your kid drinks drain cleaner, is it really worse to make them throw it up over just letting them die an excruciating death? If better care is readily available, waiting is a good option. If it is not available, waiting may be deadly.

I usually add a tiny keychain light to the kits - very useful

All my FAKs have OTC meds in them ...not because FIRST AID always involves dispensing pain meds ...but because my FAK is where I go to get Neosporin and a Band-aid for the cut on my hand when my folding shovels folds up on my hand when I didn't want it o....and when I get a headache.

I could carry all the OTC stuff somewhere else, but why not the FAK. One stop shop for big trauma and little alike.

I see no merit to narrowly focusing the use of my FAK.

Just my opinion.

--KW

I always carry OTC meds; tiny and so useful to have handy.Mine are in a tiny pill box, (and trying out the tiny ziploc pillbags) with name, dose and exp. info

"Not all those who wonder are lost"
-J. R. R. Tolkien

Not to be picky J but its "wander"..
Monk

Good rule of thumb I picked up at a Wilderness Medicine course is the longer the outing the more need for meds and less the need for 'stuff'.

Adding; safety pins & duct tape

...I find I'm packing more and meds. Most of the other stuff is improvisiable