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#257172 - 03/05/13 02:46 AM Re: No CPR allowed [Re: Arney]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3593
Loc: TX
Up until recently I was a First Responder at the facility where I work. Four months ago they not only cancelled the on-site First Responder program but actually changed company policy to FORBID one employee from helping another injured employee. We can't even go get someone else a bandaid. Management decided that the local EMS response time has averaged about 5 minutes, so that's plenty of time for them to show up and take care of any problem. If one employee were to help another then the company was afraid they (the company) could somehow get in trouble.

mad mad mad
-Blast


Edited by Blast (03/05/13 02:48 AM)
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#257175 - 03/05/13 04:07 AM Re: No CPR allowed [Re: AKSAR]
spuds Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/24/12
Posts: 822
Loc: SoCal Mtns
Originally Posted By: AKSAR
Originally Posted By: spuds
Are you required to provide free tax services,or meat cutting for those 'in need' because you work in a field?

Are you suggesting that you would charge someone a fee before doing CPR?
IM suggesting that if professional services come free,why does that not apply to all workers across the board,oh wait,not only does it not,nobody is suggesting it should.

And if Im out and I see a circumstance,in MY 'professional' judgment I WILL make an instant determination if I think CPR is warranted or not,Im NOT a slave to the state.

Now where do I sign up for free taxi service....oh yeah,only medical persons need apply? Its not my job to FORCE me into providing service,is it yours?

Has zero to do with compassion,I have plenty as do most health care providers,I dont buy I HAVE to do it,why not you????

I dont think most 87 year olds do too well with CPR either.IMO there IS a time to die,as well as be born,maybe we should let God decide at a certain point.

Too much fear of death,get over it,it comes to us all,seems to me she was being taken out peacefully and as God intended after a long lived life,there is a time NOT to interfere too.

Or we can crush her ribs,maybe revive her with brain damage and a punctured lung or 2 and a month or 2 on a ventilator to rot away with multi system failures and a lingering painful exit,that happens too.A LOT of times end of life is often ugly and painful.

We should all go out as peacefully and easily as she did.

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#257178 - 03/05/13 04:45 AM Re: No CPR allowed [Re: Blast]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3426
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Blast
Up until recently I was a First Responder at the facility where I work. Four months ago they not only cancelled the on-site First Responder program but actually changed company policy to FORBID one employee from helping another injured employee. We can't even go get someone else a bandaid. Management decided that the local EMS response time has averaged about 5 minutes, so that's plenty of time for them to show up and take care of any problem. If one employee were to help another then the company was afraid they (the company) could somehow get in trouble.


Five minutes without CPR can easily be the difference between life and death. Ditto for the Heimlich maneuver and other types of aid for choking victims. This policy is not one that I would be willing to obey if someone's life was at stake. I'd also wonder if it would end up being the difference causing me to die if I needed CPR or aid for choking.

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#257180 - 03/05/13 04:56 AM Re: No CPR allowed [Re: chaosmagnet]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3593
Loc: TX
Originally Posted By: chaosmagnet

Five minutes without CPR can easily be the difference between life and death. Ditto for the Heimlich maneuver and other types of aid for choking victims. This policy is not one that I would be willing to obey if someone's life was at stake. I'd also wonder if it would end up being the difference causing me to die if I needed CPR or aid for choking.


Yeah, I tried to explain how 4 minutes without air can leave a person a vegetable, but they didn't care. As far as I'm concerned, if I find someone needing help I'll probably give them help.
-Blast
_________________________
Foraging Texas
Medicine Man Plant Co.
DrMerriwether on YouTube
Radio Call Sign: KI5BOG
*As an Amazon Influencer, I may earn a sales commission on Amazon links in my posts.

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#257183 - 03/05/13 05:50 AM Re: No CPR allowed [Re: Arney]
James_Van_Artsdalen Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 449
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: Arney

I mean, anyone heard of a gym with a no CPR policy?

We're not talking about some young stud in a gym - we're talking an 87 y/o who is infirm enough to require assisted living.

Quote:
I'm curious if there are other situations like this to be aware of.

I vaguely recall lifeguards having been fired in the past for rescues not permitted by employer policy. I'll have to do some web searches to find those.

PS. Here's one

Originally Posted By: chaosmagnet

In many US States there is a Good Samaritan Law that immunizes you against liability if you act within the scope of your training to help someone who might otherwise die.

Unfortunately case law often limits who may claim the Good Samaritan shield. There was an uproar in California a few years back when the courts excluded medical professionals from the shield. I would not be shocked if assisted living facilities were excluded in some states, even if they were required by law to provide no medical services. Or worse, might be excluded in the future even if it hasn't happened yet.

Don't assume the policy was made by someone with good knowledge of the law. A company executive may will have read newspaper articles of crazy-quilt case law rulings on the Good Samaritan shield and thrown up their hands at the mess, and decided "no" was the only safe course.

The home needs a new policy but the legislature may also need to act to remove ambiguities from statute or especially case law.

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#257187 - 03/05/13 12:56 PM Re: No CPR allowed [Re: Arney]
spuds Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/24/12
Posts: 822
Loc: SoCal Mtns
Ive only done the Heimlich one time and it works like a charm,but get this,it was on a Shih Tzu (no political comments please on if Shih Tzus worth saving,LOL!)

Anyhow,dogs airway totally occluded (Tried finger sweep,mouth tiny and too far in,couldnt see anything,he is passing out) and he was going out FAST. I put my fists clamped under his belly and forcefully jerked up,pulling him off floor.About the 5th time that meat plug popped out at at a remarkably fast speed.

Amazing! That is one awesome rescue technique!

Mrs was astounded I did that,I was astounded that training made a cross reference and I acted fast without really conscious thought of species effectiveness transfer (maybe I read about it somewhere?),just the pathways in brain connected and the action happened.

Lot to be said for training and RE-training.

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#257190 - 03/05/13 01:44 PM Re: No CPR allowed [Re: Arney]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Channeled Scablands
People shouldn't be required to help. But that said, this appears to be some kind of
blanket decisions to not allow help, which would be an example of corporate
selfishness of the worst kind.

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#257191 - 03/05/13 01:50 PM Re: No CPR allowed [Re: Arney]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Channeled Scablands
"At Merrill Gardens, which operates 24 independent, assisted and memory-care facilities in Washington, all the workers — even the dining-room staff — are required to get CPR training, said Wendy Gardner, vice president of quality services for the company, which operates 56 communities in nine states."

"While each state’s nursing board has its own standards of practice, McFeely said he believed such a refusal to act could put the nurse’s license in jeopardy."

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2020485613_cprrulesxml.html

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#257192 - 03/05/13 02:35 PM Re: No CPR allowed [Re: Arney]
spuds Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/24/12
Posts: 822
Loc: SoCal Mtns
So many 'sources' quoting pure smack (McFeely) in my opinion,like that McFeely,sounds like pure nonsense to me promoting his facility on the back of a womens death.

Ive never seen anywhere here that a Calif nurse is required by LAW under our licensing to do CPR when not acting in a professional manner and on the clock to provide said care as legally required for the entity they are working in,a LICENSED MEDICAL facility/entity which assisted living is not,per regulations.

If the nurse was paid by assisted living to provide MEDICAL care,which I doubt is legal under terms of that facilities license,Ive never heard about it.Seems to me that Nurse would be facing all kinds of liabilities a lay person wouldnt be under the Good Samaritan law.

Again,comparing apples to oranges,2 different facilities entirely,assisted living and a nursing home.

Show me anywhere in the Calif Nursing Board regs that a RN MUST provide CPR outside company policy or in any sort of setting not licensed to provide medical care.Or that failure to do so is a licensure revokable offense,in VIOLATION of employer policy no less!

I can fully understand why a company would not want to expose themselves to liability providing medical care under their auspices they arent licensed to provide when EMS exists to legally provide such care.

Thats my OPINION only as a LICENSED RN Im not a lawyer and as all facts arent in but the hysteria.

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#257197 - 03/05/13 03:19 PM Re: No CPR allowed [Re: spuds]
ILBob Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 776
Loc: Northern IL
I can understand why a facility that is specifically prohibited by law from providing medical care would decide to obey the law.
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Warning - I am not an expert on anything having to do with this forum, but that won't stop me from saying what I think. smile

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