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#25305 - 03/02/04 09:20 PM Survivalists, Avert Your Eyes...A "hot" topic
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2148
Loc: Bucks County PA
OK, I just got into it a bit with an aquantance of mine who is a true "End of the World as We Know It" survivalist. He's got 4,000 gallons of diesel stored in his basement, has enough ammo in the house to supply a whole army division, and has stored weapons and food all over the place in the woods around his house. He's hard-core!
So, the conversation goes like this:

Him: You're not really "prepared" for when it's "go" time, Marty!

Me: What, exactly, is "go" time to you?

Him: When things in the cities collapse and everyone panics and heads to the country! You Gotta Be Ready To Shoot First and Defend Your Property! That's "Go Time" baby! (with glee in his eyes he says this)

Me: I see. "they" will see danger and panic and flee - like they did this summer in the big blackouts in the east? Or on September 11th? or when Chicago Flood in the 90's? Or when 3 Mile Island melted down? Or when they had SARS in Hong Kong?

Him: That's small-time compared to a nuke in DC!!! (Smiles again)

Me: Look a small nuke IN the capital building would leave MOST of DC intact.

and so forth...

My question/point - is the "Mad Max" vision of the future what's so alluring for these folks or is it something else? All my experience in emergencies is that many people go TOWARD the danger to help if they can. What am I missng here? Haven't the "triggers" that "should" set off the population into a mass panic happened more than a few times in the last 20 years? I vividly remember the Y2K scare and how funny it seemed to me to be scared, becasue I knew there were large amounts of money to be lost if the computers conked out. I also know those with money do what it takes to protect it, so I knew Y2K would be a non-event. It's the same with a mass-casualty incident. I'm a firefighter, my brother is a cop, and we're both surrounded by literally millions of people who can and do help in emergencies. I just don't get this "end of the world as we know it" stuff.

Can someone get me into their heads a bit?



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#25306 - 03/03/04 12:20 AM Re: Survivalists, Avert Your Eyes...A "hot" topic
Black Ops Offline


Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 11
Loc: FL
It could very well be the fantasy of it all that drives this type of thinking.

On the other hand, there are the "PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER." (I'm sure your friend has used this word! <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />) and there are those that are going to prepare and be ready for whatever they can.

I don't really have a concise answer for you.

I do feel that paranoia increases everyday, ever so slowly. I also feel that the next 10 years will really determine what happens to the human race as a whole. (Though I also said that 10 years ago! <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />) It's a hard call.

I've noticed that as computers become relied upon more, people become less prepared, or less able to deal with "ruffing it". More and more systems, jobs, and functions are taken over by computers, meaning that if the infrastructure of those machines, or electricity in general collapses, it would set society back further and further.

For instance, I had read that Morse Code was no longer going to be included in Ham Radio Operators Tests. (Haven't verified this yet.) Think of a whole generation NOT knowing morse code, a means of communication that can be used a number of different ways. But what's the point, we have cell phones right?...

...right...

But that's just my crazy rant, and I'm sure your friend has stated some of the same ideas.

All I can say is Kudos! to your friend for preparing so well. Wish I had the time and money to store away some stuff. I'm having enough trouble putting food on the table for my family let alone putting it in storage.

But then again, what good would it do if a nuke was dropped in your area anyway? <img src="images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Black Ops
_________________________
...here come the thought police...

When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.

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#25307 - 03/03/04 01:13 AM Re: Survivalists, Avert Your Eyes...A "hot" topic
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
I don't think you have to get into their heads, the answer lies right between our own ears. It is called disenfranchisement and empowerment. We all have felt it to an extent. I lose my job, wife, the dog runs off and a man I loath sits in the oval office ( insert whoever you've disliked in the last few decades.) Or, I have all the material goodies after years of hard work and some guy announces my permit for the hottub is refused because of some endangered salamander ( who also spent years of hard work evolving or being created by God for that bit of earth.) it doesn't matter what the reallity or cause is, people feel disenfranchised or scared. It is almost a genetic trait from when we were easy fastfood on the African grasslands for a sabretoothed lion, or, suffering the trials our various spiritual beliefs throw at us. Then comes empowerment. If I buy a gun, #10 buckets of lima beans and pills to keep my liver intact after a nuke lands on that poor salamander IT WON'T HAPPEN. It could, along with the Second Coming, the Age of Aquarius or my wining the lottery. Assembing my kits gave me a sense of security. I can't control job markets, homicidal ex girlfriends or Global Warming. But, when I go for hikes to get away from these issues the PSK is complete. I am empowered. So, just respect your friend's preparations as you would the babysitter talking about crop [email]circles@@@@@.[/email] Who knows? If Michael Rennie comes back they may be EQUIPPED TO SURVIVE <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

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#25308 - 03/03/04 02:42 AM Re: Survivalists, Avert Your Eyes...A "hot" topic
bat69 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 78
Loc: Fl, USA
Survivalists.....

To me they are very media influenced folks stocking up for the "unthinkable"... Bags of rice, 55gal drums of water, caches of weapons and ammunition, etc..

Nothing more than a sad group of folks stocking up on physical goods for mental comfort. I say let them have at it. ( if we aren't careful the same could be said of ourselves..) If moving to a remote area of the US ( or not ) and stockpiling food and ammo makes you feel better, then just go on ahead and do it.

Its a serious paranoia, almost incurable.. Folks that believe the way your friend does won't head twards a major event to help. They'll hunker down in a cellar and imagine a scene out of "Red Dawn" unfolding.

Best advice I have is to steer clear of such nonsense....
_________________________
victory begins with a mindset...

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#25309 - 03/03/04 02:47 AM Re: Survivalists, Avert Your Eyes...A "hot" topic
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi, Marty

I hope I don't step on too many toes or offend anyone with this, but the way I see it is, the "Doom & Gloomers" don't see any way of things getting any better ( economy, social order, return of "old fashioned" values, etc. ) without things getting a whole lot worse. In their minds, if they and their like-minded "equals" are the ones who survive the "Big Whatever" or are at least the ones on top, they can remake society to their liking. Please understand, I'm not putting anyone down, as I used to fall quite nicely into this category myself. However, I've since grown up some and figured out what was going on in my own head. I still think something catastrophic may happen some day, but I now realize that an individual can't get through something Earth-changing by themselves and it just might be a good thing that EVERYONE doesn't think JUST LIKE me. Besides... I want to be on a motor-sailer in the Carribean when "The Balloon Goes Up".

Just my two cents worth...any feedback?

Troy

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#25310 - 03/03/04 04:00 AM Re: Survivalists, Avert Your Eyes...A "hot" topic
Anonymous
Unregistered


Shame on you Marty.
Everyone needs a dream.
It helps off set those voices they hear.

"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him to assemble and use a PSK and you feed him for a lifetime." Or something like that.

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#25311 - 03/03/04 04:42 PM Re: Survivalists, Avert Your Eyes...A "hot" topic
ScottRezaLogan Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 01/07/04
Posts: 723
Loc: Pttsbg SWestern Pa USA N-Amer....
Personally, I Think there *is* some Reasonable Possibility of some level of TEOTWAWKI or Other Societal Disruptions, Coming to Happen. It May or May Not someday occur. But in it's at least Reasonable Possibility, I Prefer to Place my Preparedness Focus on the "May" here.

Now I'm Not a TEOTWAWKI Survivalist! Indeed, I'm Not Any kind of Survivalist, in Our's or the Conventionally Understood Sense of the Term.

I Think that they as a Group, (and in Many to Most Cases Individually), are Often Superfluous, Silly, and can be in some cases Downright Dangerous! Some of them shud Get and Be Real! What are we Going to Hear Next from some of them?, -that Dogs can Fly?!

But However, in my Reasonably Thinking that some Harder, Testing and Trying Times may be Coming, People as me do Share some Limited and Qualified Commonality with their TEOTWAWKI Concerns, in that way.

Economically, Morally, Internationally, Environmentally, and from Energy / Natural Resources and National Security and Defense Standpoints, -I Think that we may be Standing on Increasingly Weaker Ground! -To Give here some generally More Specific Examples of what I Mean.

So some such as I, Do Share in some TEOT. type Concerns, though Certainly Not in the *Ways* that so Many Survivalists and Co.Do!

We also Overlap in our Both being into the Many Nuts and Bolts of Survival. We Both want to Know how to operate Fire Drills, (the Bow kind, I Mean), for example.

But we Part Company from them Beyond Those Two Areas of Limited Commonality.

It's Occurred to me, that we shud Call ourselves "SurvivalERS", to Distinguish Ourselves from they, the SurvivalISTS ! Ordinarily, the Latter would be a Fine Term, in and of Itself, But they of the "Ists" Have Co-Opted the Term for their Own Purposes! We Need a Name and a Term!, for Ourselves, when such Need should Arise! As Surely it Has and Will ! We Cannot Use the Logical and Fine One, that they've Appropriated Unto Themselves! So I Suggest and Propose "Survivalers", in that they've so Taken Over our "Survivalists"!

On Something you've said, I Think that in Any Sort of a Chaotic or TEOT. Situation, that you're Gonna Run into Both Types of People!, -Helpers and Non-Helpers! We've Got to Be Prepared for Both!

As to People Running *Toward* a Disaster or Danger to Help, that may be True in Some to Many Cases. But it's also Flat *Un*true in Many Others! On Sept.11th, I Recall that People were Running like Heck *Away* From what they then knew to be Collapsing Buildings. It's Only Human Nature and Self Preservation. On your Other Side of the Coin, though, I also Recall the Firefighters and Others, Rushing Up *Into* !, the Towers, *To* Rescue People and Otherwise Be of Help! So Both Kinds, once again Abound!

And Finally, I'm Personally into Plain Old, Age Old, Perhaps Less Glamorous, -"What Do you Do in the Woods?!", type Survival ! Anyway and In It's Own Right!

-What you've ever so Learned or Heard About Such back in Scouts! Or Have so Read from Books or Magazines! What you've so Seen, Heard, or Read About in the News! What you've ever so Heard fro Old Dad or Uncle Jim!, Or from People or the Society in General!

I'm Into such Classic, Nuts and Bolts Preparedness and Survival, in it's Own Compelling Calls and Right!, and Not just over various TEOTWAWKI type Possibilities or Concerns! [color:"black"] [/color] [email]martinfocazio[/email]
_________________________
"No Substitute for Victory!"and"You Can't be a Beacon if your Light Don't Shine!"-Gen. Douglass MacArthur and Donna Fargo.

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#25312 - 03/03/04 05:04 PM Re: Survivalists, Avert Your Eyes...A "hot" topic
Molf Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/25/03
Posts: 72
Loc: Germany
Hi Martin,

nearly everyone Iīve met in my life did some preparation for "bad times".
The obviously difference is the grade of itīs extent. <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Most people are "PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER." (as Black Ops called them) but even those try to prepare (mostly by Fond-Investment or so <img src="images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> ).
As we all know itīs impossible to prepare for every thinkable case of desaster/problem/situation and so everone has to decide what her/his main points of interests are depending on whatīs expect to happen.
If your homeīs near a nuk-powerplant you probably need thyroid blocker, other hand if you live beside a hospital you neednīt necessarily surgical equipment.

To return to the question about your friendīs behavior, I think the serious point is that he seems to look forward to one or more of the described situations !
Itīs like an athlete who trains long and hard: One fine day he wants to get the challange to show everyone what he could - and under this sight Iīm a "little bit worried" about your friend and his weapons <img src="images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> ...

Donīt get me wrong, Iīm a "parnoid freak" even too - but thatīs another story ...

greets
Molf

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#25313 - 03/03/04 05:36 PM Re: Survivalists, Avert Your Eyes...A "hot" topic
indoorsman Offline
journeyman

Registered: 05/10/03
Posts: 88
Loc: Ohio
I suppose that whatever extent there's some commonality between our respective preparations, we and the 'survivalists' can learn from one another. I'm not even sure there's a clear distinction between the two camps, beyond an underlying difference in philosophy: we assume that things will ultimately get better, sooner rather than later; the survivalist assumes that things are going to get worse, probably sooner rather than later. As a consequence of this, we tend to focus on a much shorter time scale than does the survivalist, and self-sufficiency isn't a high priority - quite the opposite in fact. We're all about getting back home and/or returning to normality as quickly as possible.
_________________________
It's later than you think...

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#25314 - 03/03/04 07:17 PM Re: Survivalists, Avert Your Eyes...A "hot" topic
Anonymous
Unregistered


Although i feel that your friend may be "OVERDOING" things a bit , I am more than willing to respect his preparation as long as he respects mine! I wish both of you all the very best when "GO" time arrives

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