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#25289 - 03/02/04 07:49 PM Re: New Leathermans: Good Products or Quick Profits?

I do agree with you on the point of revamping these tools with a new look and charging double the price. Seems mad to me. However I do like the juice line. Not the look, but the layout. They are espessially good for the UK where we are not allowed to carry blades over 3" and they cannot lock, in this respect the juice series are ideal. I also love the tools on the Kf4, perfect for me. However it got stolen so i've got a supertool 200 in the post (ssshhh <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />)

#25290 - 03/02/04 08:23 PM Re: New Leathermans: Good Products or Quick Profits?
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2810
I actaully like the squirts, for their size they are decent tools. I wish you could swap aprts though, the file is much better on the EL, I'd like it to be on all three.

#25291 - 03/02/04 08:25 PM Re: New Leathermans: Good Products or Quick Profits?
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2810
Oops, I stand corrected. I did not realize it was different. So why didn't they do the wave the same. I may have to look at the others now when they come out, may just be an upgrade over the wave because that new tool adapter does look a bit smaller.

#25292 - 03/02/04 08:29 PM Re: New Leathermans: Good Products or Quick Profits?
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2810
I tend to do like the military and standardize and buy spares. I actually have a spare wave in my truck now because I loaned my wave and it almost got lost and I didn't want to be without it. I also have all three squirts and need a to replace a small pair of wise-grips that were stolen so a crunch is on on my want list now.
I don't like the rivited tools though, I think they could make quite a market selling user customizeable tools and a wide assortment of blades. People like me would have to buy each blade and won't be able to decide which to carry and end up buying three tool bodies to carry all the different blades in <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

#25293 - 03/03/04 12:22 PM Re: New Leathermans: Good Products or Quick Profits?
Polak187 Offline

Registered: 05/23/02
Posts: 1403
Loc: Brooklyn, New York
Nothing wrong with spares. My EMT belt has a Swiss tool rigged to it and key chain has a squirt tool. So I have 2 big solid tools and two small (squirt and swiss tech).

We were talking about this stuff with my friends yesterday. I'm usually the guy who brings "good" news about new equippment comming out. Obviously new line of Leathermans was quite a big news. Yet everyone was unimpressed. Most of the guys already own one productc or another from leatherman so what would we do with one one we have? If Leatherman maybe offered a trade in program where you can sell back them your Wave or SuperTool that yes I would be more than happy to be hip and current with a new line. Otherwise there are limitations to the amount of spares you can have.


#25294 - 03/03/04 01:46 PM Re: New Leathermans: Good Products or Quick Profits?
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2810
I imagine their hope is you buy a new one and give the old one to someone else, somewhere I was reading about Leatherman and it seems to me they suffered from the HP problem. People outside the computer industry probably don't know what I'm talking about but basically HP's old 3 and 4 series laser printers were built so well that it cose them sales as no one wanted to replace a working printer with a new one. Hp had to get creative and add new features and justify by the reduced cost of new toner (If you use 1 toner cart per month for two years the cost difference in toner from the old to new model would pay for the printer by then). I see Leatherman having the same problem, the old Leatherman were soo good that no one ever needed to replace them or buy new ones and their sales started dropping. So you design new models with new features in hopes that people will want the new features enough to give away their old model. Myself I actually would have bought a new wave or charge as soonm as they were released and given away one of my old waves if they hadn't messed up the screwdrivers. I may still buy one, either for me or as a gift though. This year I started giving preparedness a little bit, gave 4 squirts as presents to my wife and the guys in the immediate family. Wife gave her micra to he mother who said she wanted one after that so there are 4 new Leatherman sales, although small ones. I'm going to ask the guys near this Christmas if they use them, the ones that do I thought about buying them a wave.

#25295 - 04/05/04 10:37 AM Re: New Leathermans: Good Products or Quick Profit

For whatever it's worth, I recently bought a juice XE6 to carry on a cruise ship, to have something inoffensive and clearly not a weapon (as it was, they confiscated it, then gave it back to me on board- it's a long complicated story that, in the end, makes no sense at all).

I have other Leatherman tools, including an early Wave that I've always been rather disappointed with. It has the "loose handles" problem, the main blades are uneven in tension, and the plain-edged blade is very hard to open one-handed... and it weighs a ton. I also have an old Leatherman first-generation PST that had the soft wirecutters (dented on first use), and the handle hinges are looser than the pliers, so it's impossible to open the pliers normally- very frustrating to use. I also have a Mini that's Ok, but very uncomfortable to use, and a few Micras that have those almost-unusable tweezers.

For my money, the Juice is better engineered and built than any of my others. Everything is tighter, feels much more precise, more positive action, better designed details, more comfortable to use. After carrying it for just a week, I like it better than any of my SAKs, some of which I've had for 30 years, and I can only wish my Wave were built nearly as well.

Hopefully the Charge series will be... but I won't be running out to buy one of the first ones released. I'll wait and see.

#25296 - 04/05/04 04:07 PM Re: New Leathermans: Good Products or Quick Profit

The Tamper-Proof TORX Plus on the wave is a letdown.

How're you going to repair it in the field if the wave is "wobbly". I can't buy the torx plus.

#25297 - 04/06/04 05:04 PM Re: New Leathermans: Good Products or Quick Profit
Birkebeiner Offline

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 10
I like the Juice & Squirt lines. My EDC multi-tool is a Juice S2. I have the original Supertool, but decided pretty quickly that it was too big for me to EDC. Use it around the house. I got the Wave next and carried it EDC for a few years. Carried it in the sheath or in a pocket at first, but then moved it to my bag. Wasn't totally happy with that option; didn't have it ON me, but decided it was the best alternative. Then I moved to a job where I didn't want to carry something the size of the Wave (too conspicuous), but still wanted some basic tools on me. Got the SeberTech M4. I wasn't satisfied with it, but it was the best option I could find at the time. I carried it for a couple of years. The Juice line is just what I was looking for. The perfect size for me to EDC; not to big or too small. Good, solid construction and a nice selection of tools. And with the Squirt P4, I finally got my wife to carry a multi-tool. The new product line looks interesting. As to whether or not they should have discontinued the old one, I don't have an opinion at this time. I will say this about the new Wave, though. The wider blade is a blessing. I stopped using mine one-handed after slicing myself a few times. The wider blade takes care of that issue. Oh, and one other thing to remember. In this day and age, if a company dosen't regularly update their product line, they have a tendency to go out of business


#25298 - 04/06/04 07:29 PM Re: New Leathermans: Good Products or Quick Profit
Schwert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/13/02
Posts: 905
Loc: Seattle, Washington
I have been carrying a Juice as EDC for the past 1.5 years. It replaced my Wave as EDC because it is both handy at work, completely inoffensive, and much lighter. As a computer geek the smaller size is actually better for work than the Wave. I do miss the tool adapter but not often enough to carry it daily. I have both the CS4 and XE6 Juice. I have the leather and elastic sheath and could not be happier with this combo. The smaller one is my favorite EDC carry. My Wave rides in the vehicle now. I have not seen the new tools yet.

Welcome Birk, good to see you here.

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