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#252929 - 11/06/12 02:57 AM Re: Gas vs. Diesel [Re: LED]
Mark_M Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 295
Loc: New Jersey
You can legally store 250-1000 gallons of heating oil, which is diesel without the engine anti-wear additives. In most places you require a variance to store large quantities of gasoline.

Diesel does not go bad as fast as gasoline. I don't know if it goes bad at all. I know of people that have reclaimed heating oil from abandoned tanks after years of sitting and used it to power their equipment.

The trifecta would be oil heat & hot water, diesel generator and diesel vehicle. Fuel is interchangeable, though you can get fined for using untaxed heating oil for on-highway vehicle use. Apparently the die used in untaxed fuels will permanently stain the fuel filter, so even after you switch back you are still potentially at risk.

Smaller diesel generators can often be found at RV salvage yards. Onan is the brand name.

In NJ diesel has lasted longer than gasoline and is not subject to odd/even rationing. But when stations run out of gas they are closing down even if they still have diesel, and you still have to wait in line. Things might be different at truck stops. But even under normal situations, stations that pump diesel are few and far between. Of course if you are driving a diesel vehicle you will probably have that figured out.

Propane is a mixed bag in my state. It is an unregulated fuel so retailers charge whatever the market will bear. I the major regional LP supplier charges $18 to refill a 20# tank, but if you are a home delivery customer they only charge $9. I don't know if the lower price was a special or normal pricing, I don't have home delivery. Most retailers have gone to tank exchange only, costing an average of $20 for a swap.

Natural gas is the most affordable. Comments elsewhere about susceptibility to interruption during a power failure are noted, but I've never seen it happen. If I had natural gas available in my neighborhood it would be my #1 choice for cooking, heating and backup power. But I would still also maintain a supply of LP for emergencies, along with LP gas jets and knowledge of how to install/adjust them just in case.
_________________________
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'13 Wheeling: 8 Camping: 6 | "The trail was rated 5+ and our rigs were -1" -Evan@LIORClub

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#252936 - 11/06/12 04:16 AM Re: Gas vs. Diesel [Re: LED]
Ironwood Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/15/11
Posts: 87
Well, it is worth mentioning that you can go broke very fast running a a generator. ALL of them consume ALOT of fuel. Size your unit small, enough to keep the "basics" running (this will vary by your water, heat and other systems) We have a well (175')and hot water NG heat (back up of whole house woodburner).We dont need that much (no BIG freezer full of meat,..etc..) I could and will have a Mil Surplus diesel M701A (3KW, about 40-50 amp, mil unrates them), I also have a BIG Onan 10KW that runs on NG. I dont need or want the BIG one, but will likely have it hooked up (got it on barter from a buddy who pulled it from a hospital). I dont anticipate using the 10KW much likely the little Army jobber. I keep around 300 gallon of "off road" diesel here. It does keep for years and years. It is also my Bug Out fuel for a crew cab dually diesel truck to get he family out of harms way if necessary, that is 2400# of fuel plus water 2400# plus gear, so you can see why a dually (with canopied army trailer). There are some small pull start diesels, usually Yanmars, single cylinder, asd stated with compression release. I had a mil surplus water pump here with a pull start, fired right up. It is hard to go ALL diesel, diesel camp stoves are hard to find, and if you need to cut trees you GOTTA have gasoline. Gasoline goes bad quickly now due to Ethynol in it. It is also very hard on small engines and some folks have come out with additives that help (that is another discussion). The fine for running "dyed" off road diesel on the road is $10,000, THAT is right 10K. So, I would only do that in an emergency. The only person I ever heard that "got off" on the dyed diesel was a "Farm Truck" that was legally on the highway within 125 miles of the farm on a delivery, and that was only a fluke as the judge was reasonable, and claim was legit.


Do your homework and size your genset smallish. Even my little 3KW runs 1/2 gallon per hour, so that is $48 per day!!! The big ones will put you in the poor house. Propane is OUT, there is no way to keep the tank from "frosting/icing" if you were to try to run a genset in the winter, and it cant be reasonably kept, this info is from a buddy who ran a very LARGE statewide propane business (he was the western Pa. operations manager). Even my blacksmithing forge has issues in summer time with icing up and has to put in a large water tank (propane tank is 100#), so large tank. NG lines stay pressurized nearly all the time, power or not. Many wells are coming out of the ground with such pressure that it has to be metered down upon entering the "system" domestic and cross country pipelines, and any and all compression stations have gensets on standby. If you CAN NG, go NG


Ironwood


Edited by Ironwood (11/06/12 04:30 AM)

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#252940 - 11/06/12 04:37 AM Re: Gas vs. Diesel [Re: LED]
Ironwood Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/15/11
Posts: 87
Mark M.

The dyed diesel and road diesel are EXACTLY the same except for the dye and the tax issue. There are no additive in one that are not in the other.......


OP, also there are some older gensets that run at lower RPM's (Lister, Petter, and some others) these will last ALOT longer and be alot quieter. FYI. Like 800-1750 instead of 3600. Diesels are not designed to run for those kind of RPM's and they are designed to run at certain rpm's to keep the hertz at the specified amount. My M701A 3KW is a screamer at 36000rpm. you cannot change that.....it is designed for that and the engine will only last so long...


Ironwood

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#252958 - 11/06/12 01:38 PM Re: Gas vs. Diesel [Re: Ironwood]
thseng Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 900
Loc: NW NJ
I'd love to get my hands on a Lister/Listeroid engine. Last I heard people stopped importing them for fear of EPA issues.
_________________________
- Tom S.

"Never trust and engineer who doesn't carry a pocketknife."

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#252960 - 11/06/12 02:18 PM Re: Gas vs. Diesel [Re: LED]
Ironwood Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/15/11
Posts: 87
It is likely that over the years many many Amish have snatched them up, they are always in the running for the "good" stuff at auctions I have been to.

Ironwood

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#252962 - 11/06/12 02:31 PM Re: Gas vs. Diesel [Re: LED]
Ironwood Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/15/11
Posts: 87
It is likely that over the years many many Amish have snatched them up, they are always in the running for the "good" stuff at auctions I have been to.

Ironwood

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#252973 - 11/06/12 05:58 PM Re: Gas vs. Diesel [Re: Ironwood]
LED Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 1474
Great info Ironwood, thanks. NG looks like the way to go. It just made me think of something. When I was growing up a neighbor had a very bright NG porch light. Just like a coleman lantern with a mantle. I remember it was the only house on the block to be lit up after a power outage. Come to think of it, that was pretty smart.

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