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#247067 - 06/14/12 04:35 PM Re: Fallout shelter [Re: chaosmagnet]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Just how robust are those back-ups? Back-up systems have a limited duration. They are designed to be on-line until normal power is restored. If the grid is down long-term other arrangements will need to be made.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#247069 - 06/14/12 05:29 PM Re: Fallout shelter [Re: Russ]
unimogbert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 882
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Russ
Just how robust are those back-ups? Back-up systems have a limited duration. They are designed to be on-line until normal power is restored. If the grid is down long-term other arrangements will need to be made.



The obvious limitation is fuel supply to the generators. But chances are pretty good that it's a long-enough supply to continue pumping until decay heat levels drop.
A good design would then implement natural circulation or some other relatively passive means to dissipate the decay heat after the pumps are stopped.

But if you could get diesel fuel to the site continuously, then you could run the generators continuously (until they break).

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#247076 - 06/15/12 02:25 AM Re: Fallout shelter [Re: Ironwood]
Ironwood Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/15/11
Posts: 87
I have a buddy who is an engineer in the Nuclear field here locally, and the new Westinghouse AP1000 design just got final design certification, this system is a PASSIVE system so if in case of loss of power etc,.... it should be able to natually convect (not that that will help us in our current state of affairs). Additionally, you just never know!!!

I did read that DC report from last winter a few months back as well, thanks for linking it.

"and there is still a nuclear threat - with more dimensions than commonly imagined even thirty years ago." My thoughts exactly.

I would love to do a "tunnel connect" to my house but it is just not feasible too much bedrock. Where backfill is possible on our 20+ acres is about 500' from the house. Again trying to do this low budget, the idea of a 30,000 lbs excavator with a rock hammer doesnt fit into my low budget, LOL

Ironwood


Edited by Ironwood (06/15/12 02:30 AM)

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#247112 - 06/16/12 01:56 AM Re: Fallout shelter [Re: Arney]
GradyT34 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/14/09
Posts: 118
Originally Posted By: Arney
. . . If downwind effects are your main worry, I would personally get out of Dodge, especially with young kids. Unlike a full scale nuclear exchange that we all feared during the Cold War, an isolated nuke is going to leave plenty of areas to escape to. There isn't as much need to hunker down for weeks or months nowadays IMHO. . . . And as Chernobyl and Fukushima demonstrate, it's not like these radionuclides that contaminate your area are going to just fizzle and disappear any time soon. The sooner you can leave the affected area, the less damage to you and your family.


Excellent reasoning and even better advice. Thank you.

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#247118 - 06/16/12 11:42 AM Re: Fallout shelter [Re: Ironwood]
quick_joey_small Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 574
Loc: UK
>I actually work at home, my wife less than a mile away, and my >kids are within 3 miles. So,.... we could reconviene at our >home within about 15-20 minutes.

In the novel Resurrection Day by Brendan DuBois (excellent); a post atomic war USA, has gangs of feral orphans on the streets because all the parents naturally went straight to the schools for them when the missiles started landing. And the surest way to end up dead is to be outside in the fallout.

qjs

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#247123 - 06/16/12 04:10 PM Re: Fallout shelter [Re: quick_joey_small]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: quick_joey_small
...a post atomic war USA, has gangs of feral orphans on the streets...

I'm not familiar with that book so this is not a direct comment on the storyline, but children are far more vulnerable to radiation than adults are. The younger they are, the more sensitive they are and the more likely they are to suffer short and long term effects.

That's why my main advice regarding Ironwood's question was to consider just getting the heck away, for the sake of his kids. Evacuate, and if you need to come back to the house later on, then just have the adults return to the hot zone. Or better yet (in a cold, calculating, amoral way), send the grandparents back to retrieve things.

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#247126 - 06/16/12 05:56 PM Re: Fallout shelter [Re: Arney]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Originally Posted By: Arney
Or better yet (in a cold, calculating, amoral way), send the grandparents back to retrieve things.


As a grandfather, I resemble that remark! Actually, it makes perfect sense to me, and I am pretty sure that is what I would do if the situation ever arose. I suppose morality issues would come into play as to whether the grandparents were fully informed about the circumstances and consequences
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#247138 - 06/16/12 10:23 PM Re: Fallout shelter [Re: hikermor]
Ironwood Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/15/11
Posts: 87
If it happened here and I had to do a hasty shelter you bet I would be the last one in after I covered the abandoned old house next doors cement porch floor with dirt, there is a sizeable room under it, and I would use the skidloader to rip the aluminum enclosure off it in short order. I am expendable........

Ironwood

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#247178 - 06/17/12 11:19 PM Re: Fallout shelter [Re: Russ]
UTAlumnus Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 1019
Loc: East Tennessee near Bristol
Originally Posted By: Russ
... need the grid to power their coolant pumps.


I never have understood this.
1. Why not put a transformer on site & use the power from the turbines to run the cooling pumps?
2. Control the damping rods with an electromagnet connection. If the pumps are out of power long enough for the electromagnets to lose charge, the rods drop.

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#247179 - 06/17/12 11:21 PM Re: Fallout shelter [Re: Ironwood]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3821
Loc: USA
My understanding is that scramming the control rods is easily done. I also understand that power for cooling is needed long after power generation has ceased.

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