Equipped To Survive Equipped To Survive® Presents
The Survival Forum
Where do you want to go on ETS?

Page 2 of 2 < 1 2
Topic Options
#24306 - 02/12/04 05:23 PM Re: Busse, Chris Reeve or Randall
Anonymous
Unregistered


Omega,

There was recently mention of the requirement to dig out arrows in one of the other forums. Apparently bowhunters have taken to carrying the Gransfors Bruks "Mini" hatchet on their quivers for this. I own one (and it's larger but still small brother, the "Wildlife" hatchet), and can readily see why- it's a very tiny hatchet at about 10.5 inches and 11oz, but will out-chop many much heavier and more expensive knives. It's hard to imagine a better tool for removing arrows from trees, and removing that requirement would free up your choice of knives. Gransfors Bruks hatchets and axes have made quite an impact on the knife community because of their high quality, and how well they work.

http://www.cutsforthknives.com/item-detail.cfm?id=410&storeid=1

Also, the combination of a more modest knife and a hatchet IMHO tends to work better in hardwood forests, and it raises far fewer eybrows and issues where there are knife laws, or where the police just don't like large knives. Not that, in a pinch, a man with a smaller knife in one hand and a hatchet in the other is exactly unarmed...

Local custom may require you to loan out a knife for such abuse, but I find it hard to believe that it requires you to loan out your ONLY knife. If nothing else, that has the potential to leave you helpless. Faced with such a necessity, I'd be strongly tempted to carry an Ontario or a Scandinavian knife as a "beater" for loaning out, and keep my own knife on my belt. Certainly, if there's a potential for abuse or "loss", I'd much rather see that happen to a $15-55 dollar knife than a $150-300 one, regardless of warranty. Many knife warranties exclude obvious abuse, in any case.

Your mention of this custom reminds me of my high school days- there was one obnoxious bully who used to zero in on anyone he saw that had a knife. He'd come up and say "Hey, that's a really neat knife, can I see it?". If you handed him the knife, he'd say "that's really nice- do you have any other knives on you?" , and if you said "No", he'd say "That's too bad- I guess you're unarmed now, and I have a knife, huh?", and he'd walk off with it.

Courtesy needs to have limits.

Top
#24307 - 02/12/04 05:54 PM Re: Busse, Chris Reeve or Randall
bountyhunter Offline


Registered: 11/14/03
Posts: 1224
Loc: Milwaukee, WI USA
It seems we may be getting too romantic with our equipment needs. One of the best tools for removing errant arrows from wood is the three edged machinists deburring tool.

It has been sold as a "spike knife, CIA knife, covert weapon", and any number of descriptions I can no longer remember. They are cheap in price, robust in construction, high quality carbon steel, easy to sharpen, and available with blade lengths up to 6" long. Not romantic or macho in nature, but very light and sturdy, and if you don't want to call it a machinists deburring tool, you can always lie and say it is a leftover piece of equipment from your previous work for the "Company".

Bountyhunter

Top
#24308 - 02/12/04 06:17 PM Re: Busse, Chris Reeve or Randall
Anonymous
Unregistered


Bountyhunter,

I defer to your knowledge of such things; I'm not a bowhunter, never dug an arrow out of a tree, just passing on what I've read. Also, since I'm not a machinist (or one of our Farm-trained brethren from Langley) I have only the vaguest notion of what it is you're describing. I seem to remember something that looked like a section of an SKS folding bayonet... not sure how that would work.

In any case, though, I sort of suppose that a small hatchet would be a lot handier around camp, and take over more of the roles of a large knife- but it's just supposition.

Top
#24309 - 02/12/04 06:45 PM Re: Busse, Chris Reeve or Randall
adam Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 256
Loc: Long Island, NY
I think you should buy some mora's as previously suggested. Give them out as loaner's. They are light and cheap and if you loose them or break them it's not a big deal. Also they are great knives.

If you want to wade through some knife review take a look at this website:
http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/knives/reviews.html

PS I still stand by my swamp rat recommendation they have a user enforced quarantee (you tell them if you want the knife replaced not them) they also have a penetrator tip which I think would help you in digging out arrows. <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Edited by adam (02/12/04 06:51 PM)

Top
#24310 - 02/12/04 11:57 PM Re: Busse, Chris Reeve or Randall
Omega Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/10/03
Posts: 77
Thank you, guys,
It seems to me that carrying a small axe with myself for arrow shooting is a bit too much <img src="images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
However, we carry axes when we go to wilderness. Therefore I was thinking about not so heavy knife wirth not very long blade.
I found interesting thread on Bladeforum about Sebenzas
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showth...threadid=291091
I know they talk about Sebenzas, but how about other Chris Reeve knives, can they be sharpened to razor conditions on sharpeners like Spyderco Tri-angle? If I cannot get extremely sharp edge, well, then probably, it is not for me. I want to have really scary sharp blade in case I need to cut sheep.
Regards,

Top
#24311 - 02/13/04 03:45 AM Re: Busse, Chris Reeve or Randall
David Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 245
Loc: Tennessee (middle)
After reading what you want to do with the knife, may I suggest a couple of makers you didn't mention? Newt Livesay & Ray Ennis. I have knives by both (& others, including Randall). The knives from these gentlemen are "first among equals" in my collection.

Here's the web page for Newt's "Wicked Knife Company." My favorite is the Air Assault. Check out his Bow Hunt'n Buddy--it may be what you're looking for.

And this is the web page for Ray's Entrek Knives. I'm currently carrying a Javalina in my pack in the truck.

I'd grab either of these before my Randall--though I wouldn't be unhappy with it in the bush, either.

Good luck.

David


Top
#24312 - 02/13/04 04:34 AM Re: Busse, Chris Reeve or Randall
bat69 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 78
Loc: Fl, USA
"very unpopular places" indeed!!

Obviously, If you are going to potentially be in harms way ( from indigenous peoples, military, natives or otherwise ) I understand the need for non-reflective, military type equipment. I have different sets of equipment and clothing for different situations myself.

I still recommend using lanyards/tethers on all vital equipment while in the field ( knives, compasses, wallets - if carried ). While in the military on a field training exercise my whole team and I spent well over 45 minutes combing a 50ft by 50ft area for a wallet ( covered in woodland camo pattern fabric ) that one of the team had set down right next to him and forgotten to pick up. We found it , but were quite miffed at having to waste the time looking the wallet rather than humping to the next objective when all he had to do was teather it to his belt with 550 cord as all of us had done.

However, when It comes to domestic ( used in safe areas of the world ) survival/camping equipment, I want it chrome plated, with blaze orange trim, 1000lb tensile strength leashes on it, strobe lights imbedded in it, along with a screaming electronic voice that yells, " hey, I'm over here!!!!"

Matt
_________________________
victory begins with a mindset...

Top
#24313 - 02/13/04 07:18 PM Re: Busse, Chris Reeve or Randall
bountyhunter Offline


Registered: 11/14/03
Posts: 1224
Loc: Milwaukee, WI USA
Presumed Lost:

You are right about overall usefulness about a small axe or hatchet in a general outdoor environment.

I on the other hand would feel awfully silly digging out an arrow with an axe, and when you consider design aspects, an axe would be a real pain for the purpose of arrow removal (after all, it's bad enough I missed the target.).

The design example vis-a-vie the triangular bayonet is correct except that the deburring tool usually has a wooden handle and the most popular blade size is about 4".

If I have to chose between spending $12.00 versus $77.00 and the primary purpose is to retreive arrowheads because of my poor aim, I would opt for the $12.00 expenditure.

It has been a long time since I have had to dig an arrow out of a tree, and it was back in 1972 that I got out of the machinists trade because the pay was going downhill.

Bountyhunter

Top
#24314 - 02/13/04 10:27 PM Re: Busse, Chris Reeve or Randall
Anonymous
Unregistered


Bountyhunter,

Like I said, I'm not a bowhunter, and have never dug an arrow out of a tree, but I'm just passing along what I ran across on another forum.

Here's the quote:

"Some of my archery friends have made sheaths for their mini's that attach to their leather quivers. They seem to be happy with that arrangement since the mini weighs very little. The mini is used to chop out arrows (in front of the point) stuck in old stumps when "stump shooting" for field practice. "

And here's the link:

GB Mini Thread

They have quite a bit more to say about the Mini in that thread.

>>...silly digging out an arrow with an axe, and when you consider design aspects, an axe would be a real pain for the purpose of arrow removal...<<

I guess I'm not getting it. The GB Mini is hardly an axe, the bit is about 2.5 inches long, the whole thing is 10.5 inches long- it- the whole thing- fits in a front trousers pocket if they're loose enough.

So, why would a small object that's efficient and excellent for chopping wood be "a real pain for the purpose of arrow removal", and why would what's essentially a spike with a handle be better?

Mabye it's a rhetorical question. I was trying to offer a helpful suggestion, not challenge anyone's belief system.

Top
#24315 - 02/14/04 04:58 AM Re: Busse, Chris Reeve or Randall
bountyhunter Offline


Registered: 11/14/03
Posts: 1224
Loc: Milwaukee, WI USA
Presumed Lost:

To set things in prespective, please understand that back then the point of a broadhead was slightly thicker than a razor blade. We did not have broadheads with hard leading points that entered before the thin blades as you find on many broadhead arrows today..

When I was still able to bow hunt (damn knees won't cooperate any more.), I never had a small axe available and back then, they were not as small as the mini. With broadheads (I preferred the two-bladed Bear with the removable inserts for 4-bladed cutting.), any arrow that did end up in a tree was removed with my old Craftsman carbon steel hunting knife. The inserts sat farther back on the arrowheads and thus did not ever come into contact with the wood which made digging the arrows out much easier. Most of my time bow hunting involved never even getting a shot off because even with sights and constant practice, I never felt comfortable shooting anything more than fifty feet away.

The machinist deburring tool came into play during practice shooting where trees and other wooden objects were purposely shot at. The people I learned to shoot with did most of thier practicing with what are known as field points which could be purchased in various weights to match the weight of the broadhead you preferred. Just before the hunting season started, we would take our broadheads to archery ranges that had straw bales for final tuning of the sights and snap shooting. The reason for this was that even though the practice field tipped arrows and the broadhead arrows weighed the same, the flight characteristics were a little different because of the shape of the arrowhead.

We would never ever target shoot at wood targets with broadheads as back in those days (leading tips, slightly thicker than razor blades.) they were too fragile for repeated impacts in wood and too expensive for that. The machinists deburring tool had about a 5" handle and with a 4" blade, there was no bulk and minimal weight and I already owned it.

Bountyhunter

Top
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2



Moderator:  Alan_Romania, Blast, cliff, Hikin_Jim 
November
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3
4 5 6 7 8 9 10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25 26 27 28 29 30
Who's Online
3 registered (M_a_x, Pete, hikermor), 232 Guests and 5 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Nova, jackmiller, DaveL, Dale, rac
5267 Registered Users
Newest Posts
California Wildfires- Nov.
by Jeanette_Isabelle
0 seconds ago
I'm Not Coming Home
by Jeanette_Isabelle
Today at 02:44 AM
A Tribute to Stan Lee
by Jeanette_Isabelle
Today at 02:04 AM
fresh motivation to pack a "Go bag"
by TeacherRO
Yesterday at 10:22 PM
How Much is Too Much?
by Jeanette_Isabelle
Yesterday at 01:04 PM
Anniversary
by haertig
Yesterday at 04:13 AM
RSK-G2
by chaosmagnet
Yesterday at 01:12 AM
Urban Prep Class at REI
by TeacherRO
11/12/18 08:19 PM
Newest Images
Tiny knife / wrench
Handmade knives
2"x2" Glass Signal Mirror, Retroreflective Mesh
Trade School Tool Kit
My Pocket Kit
Glossary
Test

WARNING & DISCLAIMER: SELECT AND USE OUTDOORS AND SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT, SUPPLIES AND TECHNIQUES AT YOUR OWN RISK. Information posted on this forum is not reviewed for accuracy and may not be reliable, use at your own risk. Please review the full WARNING & DISCLAIMER about information on this site.