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#242066 - 02/29/12 06:00 AM Pre-oiler pumps?
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
I understand very pricey engines are protected by an electric oil pump which comes on just before the starter to be sure there is oil in / on the various engine parts before ignitiion. Is this technology available for ordinary vehcles, generators, etcetera?

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#242075 - 02/29/12 10:56 AM Re: Pre-oiler pumps? [Re: dweste]
Paul810 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 1428
Loc: NJ, USA
With the type of engines the average consumer has, it isn't really necessary. If the engine is run regularly and the oil changed on an appropriate schedule (using the appropriate modern oil formulation) there will be enough entrained oil present to ensure proper lubrication on start-up. Larger engines (like cars) are designed with oil galleries and hatching to hold oil for startup. Small engines often don't even have oil pumps, instead relying on splash oiling.

Where you see pre-oilers is more in large industrial engines, especially engines that see infrequent use (like in emergency back-up generators). Why? A couple reasons. First, these engines are so physically large that it takes a while for the oil to reach all the necessary surfaces. Second, these engines tend to sit for long periods of time, allowing the oil to drain away from said necessary surfaces. Finally, these engines are often turbo diesels, which are more susceptible to things like oil coking and fuel dilution of oil. With that in mind, they often use a pre-oiler in conjunction with an oil bypass (filtering) system and possibly even an oil heater. This is done more to ensure oil quality and viscosity than anything else.

You also see pre-oilers in airplane engines, specifically radial engines, which apparently have problems related to oil pooling (though I have limited experience with airplane engines).

Anyway, If you're still interested in it, there are plenty of companies selling pre-oiling or oil accumulator systems on the net. I know amsoil used to sell one, but when I looked it up it was apparently discontinued. Just be sure to look into how they operate, because many of them require a separate pressurized air source.

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#242085 - 02/29/12 02:19 PM Re: Pre-oiler pumps? [Re: dweste]
unimogbert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 882
Loc: Colorado
I've not seen these mentioned in a very long time.

What I recall is a 12V pump which draws suction thru the oil drain plug hole (modified plug) and puts oil to the oiling system. Light aircraft are a good market for this since they sit a lot and are very, very expensive.


My dad actually made one out of an aircraft hydraulic accumulator (from a crashed military jet) and uses it on his '85 Chevy Suburban (250,000 mi on this engine including towing). Before shutdown he accelerates the engine to charge the accumulator to pressurize it then closes the in/outlet valve to the accumulator and shuts down.

Before startup he opens the valve which discharges the accumulator to the oil system then he starts the engine.

Brief google search revealed-

http://www.engineprelube.com/ (looks like an accumulator-style design but without the piston)

http://revolutionmarine.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/preoilers.html

Of course the suction hoses and such add a point of failure that wasn't present before so more care and inspection of the parts is required.

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#242096 - 02/29/12 07:27 PM Re: Pre-oiler pumps? [Re: unimogbert]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
I guess the idea is to prevent burning/fouling/friction/wearing in that first second of engine start. I recall hearing that is when most engines take a beating and curing that could greatly extend the life of the beasts.

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#242099 - 02/29/12 08:02 PM Re: Pre-oiler pumps? [Re: dweste]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2995
A modern engine can go 200,000 to 300,000 miles, the car will rust away around it before the engine wears out.

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#242108 - 02/29/12 09:55 PM Re: Pre-oiler pumps? [Re: Eugene]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
Originally Posted By: Eugene
A modern engine can go 200,000 to 300,000 miles, the car will rust away around it before the engine wears out.


That might be the next thread!

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#242110 - 02/29/12 10:19 PM Re: Pre-oiler pumps? [Re: dweste]
unimogbert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 882
Loc: Colorado
Achieving those figures would be an interesting thread.
Not every car with any owner can do it. But it's much more common than it used to be. (not that I've done it myself yet)

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#242112 - 02/29/12 10:57 PM Re: Pre-oiler pumps? [Re: dweste]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2995
I put 200,000 on a 2.5L 4 cylinder s10 then melted a piston when the radiator blew and it overheated. I tore it down and the machine shop thought it had less that 50k are the honing marks were still present. Bored it out .030 and put it back together and would still have it today if I didn't need a bigger cab for kids. Wife's car is rated for 300k, both of ours have 100k on them now, 200-300k is nothing for a modern gasser. People take their diesels and pull them out of rusted out truck bodies around 200 -300k then find a newer rolling chassis to put it in.

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