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#239725 - 01/20/12 05:17 AM Re: A gunfight might not be like you expect it to be [Re: gonewiththewind]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2221
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Montanero
Guns escalate the situation, rarely do they reduce the threat without killing someone.

If a criminal has put me in a life threatening situation - whether by gun, knife, overpowering me, etc. - I figure the situation is already about as escalated as it can get (due to the criminals actions). I am escalating nothing by drawing my firearm and defending myself at that point. I would not do warning shots, covering fire, shoot-to-wound, etc. I would be defending my very life, and my shots would be aimed to stop the assault as definitively and as quickly as possible. In actual practice, assuming conditions allow, that typically means initial shots to the center chest, and if that fails to stop the assault, additional shots to the head. (I win the "most commas in a sentence" award for that last one!)

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#239731 - 01/20/12 10:36 AM Re: A gunfight might not be like you expect it to be [Re: quick_joey_small]
bigreddog Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 253
My rules for combat (guns, hands, whatever, these apply):

1. Have a plan and train that plan
2. Make the plan simple
3. Know that your worst in training will be the best you manage under stress (in other words when you have a bad day in practice - that is the standard you can rely on under pressure)
4. Mental skills beat hardware
5. Luck is always a factor - by entering into combat you have invited the gods of chance to play, and there is always something that can go wrong (slipping on a wet floor, unlucky ricochet, misfire whatever). Training and hardware can minimise it, but they don't eliminate it, so don't enter in to it lightly

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#239806 - 01/21/12 03:05 PM Re: A gunfight might not be like you expect it to be [Re: quick_joey_small]
ablesolutions Offline
Stranger

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 13
Loc: New Jersey
An excellent thread. Thanks!
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#239807 - 01/21/12 03:24 PM Re: A gunfight might not be like you expect it to be [Re: quick_joey_small]
ablesolutions Offline
Stranger

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 13
Loc: New Jersey
I have found these sources useful for choosing ammunition for home defense: The first is a youtube video entitled "Testing Five Different .22 Bullets". The second is tactical brief #10 at the firearms tactical institute website firearmstactical dot com, entitled "Shotgun Home Defense Ammunition". What these did for me was to get me thinking about optimizing ammunition for the goals I want to achieve. In a self defense situation, I assume many would want to minimize collateral damage while effectively stopping an attacker.
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#239844 - 01/21/12 11:33 PM Re: A gunfight might not be like you expect it to [Re: quick_joey_small]
Pete Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1372
"FWIW, NYC cops are required to have a twelve-pound trigger on their service pistols. This is what I was told, last week, by an NYC cop who is joining my range/club. I have no reason to doubt his statements. I have no issue with a minimum trigger-pull requirement for a carry pistol, but 12 pounds is so much that aim must suffer."

That's very good news for the NY criminals ... if it is true. Might just be a rumor, though.


reddog - thought your basic rules were pretty good.
I agree that the main thing for home defense is to have a PLAN.

Pete2


Edited by Pete (01/21/12 11:34 PM)

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#239863 - 01/22/12 03:13 AM Re: A gunfight might not be like you expect it to [Re: Pete]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Pete
That's very good news for the NY criminals ... if it is true. Might just be a rumor, though.

You can order it as an accessory from Glock yourself. It's their "New York" trigger springs.

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#239880 - 01/22/12 07:38 AM Re: A gunfight might not be like you expect it to [Re: quick_joey_small]
quick_joey_small Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 531
Loc: UK
I know Massad Ayoob strongly reccommends getting the new york trigger and with 22 out of 55 shootings being unintentional, I'd have to ask if a 12 pound trigger is even heavy enough:

from the thread originating post:

'33 instances in which an officer intentionally shot at a suspect...
22 instances of unintentional discharges.

qjs

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#239881 - 01/22/12 08:40 AM Re: A gunfight might not be like you expect it to [Re: quick_joey_small]
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1451
Originally Posted By: quick_joey_small
I know Massad Ayoob strongly reccommends getting the new york trigger and with 22 out of 55 shootings being unintentional, I'd have to ask if a 12 pound trigger is even heavy enough:


Check this out. NYPD wants Kahr to increase the trigger pull from 7.5 to 13 lbs due to negligent discharges:

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-12-12/news/30509585_1_pistol-discharges-nypd-brass-kahr-arms

I can only assume people who were used to those heavy 12 lb Glock triggers applied the same force to the light little Kahrs.

Now, the Kahr pistols I've handled have good triggers. (They didn't feel like 7.5 lbs, but my finger isn't a digital scale.) I'm glad the manufacturer couldn't (wouldn't?) modify the trigger pull and destroy a good thing.

I guess we're drifting away from the original topic...

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#239897 - 01/22/12 09:11 PM Re: A gunfight might not be like you expect it to [Re: quick_joey_small]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
I hope Glock keeps available their "standard" Glock trigger spring. I don't find it to be light. I hardly ever shoot a revolver.
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If you're reading this, it's too late.

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#239899 - 01/22/12 10:03 PM Re: A gunfight might not be like you expect it to [Re: ireckon]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2221
Loc: Colorado
Quote:
Police departments generally require a heavier pull because they want officers to realize the serious nature of opening fire.

If these cops don't realize that shooting someone is serious business UNTIL they are already pulling the trigger, Lord help us!

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