Going Back to Memories of one of my Scout Campouts, -that I Touched On elsewhere in this Forum,-( I'm speaking of my Patrol Campout,-June 1970.),

-I was Absolutely Horrified and Mortified!, -to Behold a Fellow Scout of mine!, -Just Cooly Tearing the Pages out of his Scout Handbook!, -and using them to Light his Fire! Complete with his Cavalier Attitude towards Doing So!

It was Gathering Dusk, -on that Warm, Cloudy, Early June Day. And he, -Rationalizing that just because he's now Past Tenderfoot, -that he'd mayswell just use those pages to light a fire he had a Fancy for.

And to my Horror, -He Proceeded to Do So! -"Thats your Scout Book you're Doing that To!", -I Thot to myself. - "All that Excellent, Priceless, Information! It Goes Against the Whole Spirit of It All! What do you Think you're Doing?! Don't you Know!?"

But unlike me, -He Wasn't a Book Person. He Couldn't See It! -Even Had I said Something. -Which is also Precisely a Part of Why I Didn't say anything. Where would It have Gotten?,-Anyway!

In Retrospect,-It could have at Least Served to do some Concsious Raising.

I know it's a Ready Source of paper, -and a Quite Suitable Enuf means of starting a Fire. In an Outdoor Situation, -That can take Precedence.

Even so,-We were in No Spot,-Adequate Other Firestarting material existed, -And I Hate to Think what Good Ole Mr. T....,-our Scoutmaster, would have Said or Thot of that! -If This had been one of His Drop In Times!

-That was his Scout Handbook!, -All that Priceless Information!, -and the Whole Spirit of It All! You just Don't Do Things like That!

Yet he Did,-and he Honestly Didn't mean anything Maliciously Bad by It!, -But Still Shouldn't Have!

I'm Sadly Sure he Wasn't the First,-or Last. I Think many other Scouts have Done this,-over the years as well! Perhaps it's a sort of a Non Book Person Laff At, -type of Revenge!? As well as it being many instances of Genuine or Semi-Genuine Firestarting, with a Lot of Scouts.

All I can Add, -is that my Scoutmaster wanted us having our Handbooks there, -to Read and serve as a Reference, -NOT to Start Fires,-Unneccessary Fires with!

He could have Practiced with something else! It was Not that kind of a Need To- of a Situation!

As Far as I was concerned, -It was Akin to Doing a Sacrilige in a Church!,-to be Needlessly Burning your Scout Handbook like that! You just Don't Do things like that!

How many of you have had similar Experiences? How many of you have Witnessed This? How many of you (are Brave Enuff to Admit that perhaps you ) have Done This yourselves?

-The Encouragement and Moral of the Story is,- Leaders,-Watch for This and Urge (or More) them Not to Do This! -And Present Day and Future Scouts,- -Don't be Doing This! -Burning Up your Scout Book! -That Runs Right Up Against the Whole Spirit of It All! -DON'T be Doing It!!! [color:"black"] [/color] [email]ScottRezaLogan[/email]

People today do not have the same attitude toward books and printed knowledge that I had back when I was a kid, and still have. A book was sacred. You read it. You didn't mar it or otherwise destroy it.

I saw someone rip a page out of a book once to write a note on it, and stuff the page in his pocket. When I questioned his actions, I was rewarded with a derisive look. He replied, "It's just a book. This stuff is all on the Internet, anyway."

A very sad comment on our society.

I recently finished reading Walter Isaacson's Benjamin Franklin: An American Life. I was both amazed & appalled at the endnotes & "bibliography"--a large portion of both were internet citations! This is scholarship? Given the ephemeral nature of the internet, I'm very concerned for the future of historical research. How is one to "check sources" when they are merely a bunch of electrons that can cease to exist in an instant? Books, while perhaps difficult to find, are far & away to be preferred.

I hold multiple degrees in History, & have taught the subject at the college level, & though I "do computers" for a vocation, history is still a serious avocation & hobby. I was already somewhat dismayed over the loss of writing (I guess I mean penmanship) and written communication skills brought on by the widespread use of the telephone. Instead of writing someone a note, now we just pick up the phone to "reach out & touch someone" (the quote is from an ATT Long Distance ad some years back, for those unfamiliar with it).

While I also greatly enjoy the internet & various fora thereon (especially this one), and have learned much, I can't read an online book under a tree without an extension cord or a bunch of batteries--& when they're gone, then what?

I'll step off the soapbox now.

David

"When I get a little money, I buy books; if there's any left over, I buy food." -- Cicero

Your Observations bring to Mind, Things I've heard about how the Television Age has Done so Much to Squelch the Art of Conversation.

Sure!, Some have still Got It! We may be somewhat Heartened and Surprised! It could be one of Those Things in Life that are somewhat Better than they Look! One can Often be Positively Surprised!, by what they See in the world of Real Life People around them. As oppossed to the General Society's State and Trend. And both the Old and the New, have each got their Own Pros, Cons, and In Betweens, to Them.

But even if so, It's of course still Very Much Not the Same! TV, the Telephone, and now some Aspects of the Information Age, have Largely Contributed to Very Much of What you have to say. It's Not that Same, Closer Age of Conversation anymore!, We'd Do Well to Get Back to It!, or at least get a Nodding Re-Acquaintence with It!

I'm old enuff to well Remember your reference to "Reach Out and Touch" At least that's in the Right Spirit and Direction, but I Echo what you've known to be even Better!

Your Thoughts bring back to Mind an Episode from one of my Favorite TV Shows ever, ( Oops!, TV again! ), -That's the ORIGINAL Star Trek.

( A Vast Majority of TV shows, Now and Going Back a Long Time!, -I Really Don't Care For! What's that someone once said about "The Great Wasteland"!? I Recall a Guy once saying, that they should Round Up all the TVs and Throw Them in the River! I Liked that one Pretty Good.)

Now About the Original Star Trek, -There was an episode where this Old, Colorful, Lawyer Figure, -Mr. Cogley, Came to Captain Kirk's Defense, at a Time he Really Needed It! And BOOKS, as Well as Values like Conversation, -Came to the Fore! This is How This Ties In, with your Mentions of Books and Conversation, in This Thread.

Old Mr. Cogley pointed to his Data Disc, the Standard of their Day, Unenthusiastically Acknowledging that Anything and Everything Legally Imaginable is on them! Right There at his Fingertips. "I Don't Use Them!", -He said Dismissively and with Spirit! "BOOKS!",-"Books are What I Use!", -He More or Less said. He then Went On, to Extol the Virtues of Books!, Speaking of the Magna Carta and Many Such Things Else, in this Vein.

This is along the Same Spirit and Lines of What you Speak of, and your Mentioning of It has Brought This to Mind. It's a Good Back Up to What you've said. You may be Familiar with the Episode, or may Not be. But anybody who is, Knows Well of What we Both Mean, here!

"Cogleyism" and the Art of Conversation!, and Other such Like Things, -We Ought to be Getting Back to That!, in at Least some Understanding and Measure! [color:"black"] [/color] [email]David[/email]

Two stories - one personal, one that I read in - yes, a book. <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I got interested in survival (and actually, this was when I found ETS, I think) when I got roped into giving a talk on "Wilderness Survival" for a group of fellow pilots. As part of the talk, I showed them a copy of John Wiseman's "SAS Survival Guide" and recommended that every pilot should keep a copy of this book in his or her shirt pocket when flying. One smart-aleck said, yeah, if all else fails you can tear the pages out of it and start a fire with it. Another pilot, ex-military, who was sitting at the front of the class and paying close attention to my talk, immediately stood up, turned around, and said in a very clear voice, "NO! You burn your logbook before you burn your survival manual!"

The other example, though, is from Larry Dean Olsen's "Outdoor Survival Skills" (2nd Ed.) He tells the story of how he read about how his own book (1st Ed.) had saved the lives of two teenagers who got lost in a snowstorm (in the Southwest, I believe - Colorado or New Mexico?) They had tried and tried, unsuccessfully, to light a fire.

Eventually, they were down to their last two matches when one of them remembered that his mother had given him a copy of Olsen's book before he left on the trip.

(I can picture the conversation, can't you? <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> "Oh, mom, I don't need that, we're not going to get lost." "YOU PUT THAT IN YOUR BACKPACK OR YOU'RE NOT SETTING FOOT OUT THAT DOOR, YOUNG MAN!")

Anyway, in the last rays of the dying sun, he sat and read the section on starting a fire until he was sure he understood it, then he tore some pages out of the book (literally), used that as the basis for his teepee fire, and with their second last match, started the fire that kept them alive through the night.

So yes, people should have far more reverence for books than they do. (You can't stick the Internet in your shirt pocket, and you can't read a Palm Pilot without batteries.) But as Olsen's story also points out, books shouldn't be so sacred that you forget they're a ready source of paper, WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS!

aardwolfe, Thanks for your Two Good Personal Stories on this Topic.

In the First, it's of course Preferable that such a Survival Manual be as Light and Compact as possible, with Weight, Balance, and Bulk, being as Crucially Important as they are!, in the Aviation World. The Distributed Books you speak of, Probably were. Of course I've seen some in the world of Survival and Preparedness Literature, the Gem SAS Survival Guide being the First to come to mind.

About your Second Example, You Probably are Aware that I too, have Allowed for this sort of an Extenuating Contingency, in my Post. We're Both in effect saying the Same Thing. Your Example is a Good Reinforcing Backup. Sometimes it can Get to Resorting to such Measures, Out There in the "Make It or Break It",Survival Wilds.

Hate to Have to Say It!, but that can even Occur with a Bible, if It came Right Down to It! Or God Forbid,-an American (or Other) Flag!, *-if That's the Last and Only Firestarting Material you Had Left!*, -to be "Survival Frank" about It. Even Money and Important Personal Papers you have with you. ( I Think there, concerning the Bible, God would say, " Go Ahead, -I Want you To! ")

The Same Holds True for Cases where one HAS To Resort to Cannibalism. (of course Only involving someone who has Already Naturally Passed.) I myself would have No Problem with my Survivalmates Cannibalizing on my onetime Body, were I to Naturally Pass First, in such a Survival Situation. I would Want my Mates to Do so, if there'd be such a Need.

And so in a Worst Come to Worst Scenario, Yes, It can come Down to Having to Burn some or perhaps even All!, of say a Bible or Survival / Scout Book. As you say yourself, -Only "WHEN All ELSE FAILS!"

In that case, of course, One shud Try to use and Burn the Less Important Pages First, -Title Page, Index, Table of Contents, Etc. Followed of course by the Less / Least Important or Applicable Sections ( Less or Non Applicable to your own Situation and Needs)

Now when your Hands are Pretty Stiff and Cold, and you've GOT to Soon get a Fire Going!, to Warm both Them and Yourself Up!, One might Not Tend to concern themselves so much about what pages they burn.

But even here, -Aim NOT to First Burn your Most Crucially Needed and Applicable of Pages!! It's a Good Thing those Strandees you Speak of, First READ the Section on Firestarting! -Before just Ripping Out any old pages, (perhaps ones on Firestarting), and Making a Shot in the Dark! If They'd so make the kind of Greenhorn Fire that many an Average Citizen would make.........! No, They first Availed Themselves of Mr. Olsen's wise Firestarting Advice! Granted, They were at the Mercy of the Remaining Sun, but at least they had some, and Used such Wisely.

Agreed this was such a Situation. Agreed we Don't Burn Things like Survival and Scout Books Otherwise! I Know you Feel and Agree with such, All Along / As Well.

But even here, -The Less Important Parts First! Thats an Added Suggestion I would like to Make.

( Larry Dean Olsen, -of Course, would Have Wanted them to Do so too, -in this Survival Situation.)

-But READ the Firestarting Pages!, BEFORE Burning Them or Any Other!

Thanks Again, -for your Two Great Backup Examples.

( I mean Backup of This Important and Behooved "Concept"!,-Not so much of me. You've Done so Well.) [color:"black"] [/color] [email]aardwolfe[/email]

The movie: "Man in the Wilderness" (1971) featured the main character starting a fire with the pages from a Bible.
But on the Boy Scout Handbook issue, I have seen them defiled in various ways over the years. The most vivid example that comes to mind would be at a winter camp that I attended when I was a Life Scout. I saw another guy, a little older than me, use pages from his handbook to roll a crudely fashioned cigar. The inner contents were not tobacco, of course, but lobolly pine needles. Needless to say, I was ticked off.