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#237295 - 12/12/11 09:53 PM Re: New Mexico man recounts mountain ordeal [Re: AKSAR]
Glock-A-Roo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
Originally Posted By: AKSAR
If you do decide to attempt to walk out, it is probably best to make that decision early, before you become exhausted, hypothermic, run out of food, etc.


This is an extremely cogent and important point IMO. Unless you have a lot of food/water/heat/etc resources on hand, I think too few appreciate the importance of WHEN you decide to go/no-go. In a limited resource environment, the option of going may evaporate (sometimes literally...) after 24-48 hours.

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#237296 - 12/12/11 10:01 PM Re: New Mexico man recounts mountain ordeal [Re: Denis]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By: Denis

So here's a tip for those who may run into this in the future: if your heater goes out and its very cold out (i.e., middle of Canadian Prairies winter cold) the only way to see out of your windshield is to drive around with your windows down. Keeping the temperature the same inside & out keeps the windshield from freezing over inside.


A slight variation on this if your ventilation fan works but your heater doesn't: Adjust so the fan blows cold air on the window... Drove for two hours in -10C (5F) like that with my wife and kids wrapped up in the back seat. Not really a problem, but I was glad that the trip wasn't longer or that the weather wasn't colder. My wife and kids were fine, but the driver (me!) had to stick my forehead right into the cold airstream...

Being equipped for a weekend stay-over in winter (lots of warm sleeping bags and clothes) made the difference between a slight nuisance and two hours of hellish, brutal cold. We also had the option of waiting a few hours to catch public transport (train or bus) - which we probably would have done if our sleeping bags hadn't been available.

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#237298 - 12/12/11 10:18 PM Re: New Mexico man recounts mountain ordeal [Re: Denis]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By: Denis

I can see how this could have played out - we're often driven to overcome adversity rather than give into it. Maybe it's a combination of determination, optimism, pride and, heck, even testosterone that motivates us to believe we can overcome whatever is being thrown at us.


Dennis, you're spot on.

Laurence Gonzales says a lot of similar things in his book: Deep survival (obligatory reading, IMO). Anyone should know that making bad decisions against better knowledge is something we're ALL bound to do, at some point or other.

I've read about very experienced mountaineers that make decisions beforehand: If I'm not at the summit at X o'clock I must turn around because if I don't I won't make it before dark. Even for them, the best decisions are thrown out the window when "summit fewer" sets in.

Personally, I take great satisfaction in mastering challenging weather conditions, wether on road, boat, foot or skiis. I must put in an extra effort to make the decision NOT to always "press on" when things get a bit rough.

How do we deal with this? I think a good place to start is to realize our decision process is influenced by a lot more than cold, rational thinking. In fact, most of it is automatically and triggered by emotions: Did you have a good time when you did something similar? Yes, I felt pretty darned good the last time I plunged through the snow banks with my vehicle. So I'm more inclined to press on than I should be using cold, rational logic.


Edited by MostlyHarmless (12/12/11 10:21 PM)

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#237304 - 12/12/11 11:21 PM Re: New Mexico man recounts mountain ordeal [Re: Russ]
Teslinhiker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 1418
Loc: Nothern Ontario
Whenever I review the winter vehicle kit (such as I doing now for next week's travel about 300 miles up north), I always refer back to this thread for ideas that I might incorporate into the seemingly ever evolving winter vehicle kit.

One thing I cannot stress enough is the importance of keeping the gas tank full as possible and carrying extra gas with you. For example, next week, 2 x 5 gallons of gas will be riding in the back as around here and all too often, the mountain passes are suddenly closed for hours due to extreme snowfall and or equally extreme avalanche conditions. When the temperatures drop well into double digits below zero, there are not too many home brewed ways of keeping warm and being able to run the vehicle engine periodically without worrying (as much) about running out of fuel is a big plus.

That said, earlier this fall, I picked up a Mr. Buddy portable heater as recommended by a friend who uses one to keep their small trailer warm in the fall months. If need be, the heater can be setup in the back of the truck and would keep the interior comfortably warm without having to run the vehicle engine. I tested this theory a couple of weeks ago and let the heater run for about 3 hours with the outside temps were just below zero. The heater kept the interior almost too warm so it should be fine when the temps are much lower.

As for the stay vs go for assistance dilemma, this is a very tough call depending on the situation. If you are snowed in on a highway or trafficked secondary road, you would probably better off to stay put as road or emergency crews will appear at some sooner rather then later point.

On the other hand, if you find yourself off road or on an old barely used side road, the decision of stay/go is much more difficult as it is tempered with too many human, terrain and environmental variables. As I said, tough call and even though at first glance, the right call may be to stay. It could also be the wrong decision. Case in point, is the couple who got lost in Nevada. The husband died while going for help and the wife lived (barely) subsisting on the very little food that they had until it was gone. However we will never know what may of transpired if the husband stayed and the food she had rationed would of been split between the two and thus consumed much faster and well before the wife's eventual rescue, 49 days later.

_________________________
Earth and sky, woods and fields, lakes and rivers, the mountain and the sea, are excellent schoolmasters, and teach some of us more than we can ever learn from books.

John Lubbock

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#237337 - 12/13/11 06:27 PM Re: New Mexico man recounts mountain ordeal [Re: Teslinhiker]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
In most of the cited cases, what seemed to be lacking was the means to signal effectively, either the traditional fire,signal mirror, or whistle, or the more high tech = PLB, OnStar or equivalent. If you can call attention to yourself, the go-or-stay decision becomes trivial.

My sister in law used to commute between Bemidji, MN and Fargo, ND during the winter to teach classes. Her SUV was equipped with OnStar, along with the traditional items. It struck me as a darn good idea.
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#237339 - 12/13/11 06:40 PM Re: New Mexico man recounts mountain ordeal [Re: Doug_Ritter]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3822
Loc: USA
The one thing to be wary about with OnStar is that it's dependent on terrestrial wireless service. If you're stuck somewhere without cell service, OnStar can't help.

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#237344 - 12/13/11 08:22 PM Re: New Mexico man recounts mountain ordeal [Re: chaosmagnet]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Learn something every day. So for many purposes, it is no better than your cell phone?
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#237345 - 12/13/11 08:36 PM Re: New Mexico man recounts mountain ordeal [Re: hikermor]
Denis Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 631
Loc: Calgary, AB
Originally Posted By: hikermor
Learn something every day. So for many purposes, it is no better than your cell phone?

Well, that's not exactly what the salesman told me, but that's what I am starting to understand smile.

You can check out the OnStar coverage map for specifics, although I am still somewhat confused what "Limited OnStar service available" really means; areas without cell service are shown as this limited category while very few areas are labelled as no service available.
_________________________
Victory awaits him who has everything in order — luck, people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck. Roald Amundsen

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#237351 - 12/13/11 09:46 PM Re: New Mexico man recounts mountain ordeal [Re: Doug_Ritter]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2995
It used to use Verizon's network, which has better coverage than the rest, and has a better antenna. My parents, for example can make a call from their car sitting in their driveway deep in the valley and I have to take my phone part way up the mountain. Then anyone else not on Verizon has to drive 1/2 way to town before they get a signal. Right at their house either my droid or company blackberry are right on the signal/no signal threshold and will eventually get some messages through if you just leave them sit but not quite enough signal to maintain a call so the external Onstar antenna helps there. I wonder if that new Onstar mirror that you can get as an add on has an external antenna or if its all in the mirror so it might not connect as well.

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#237352 - 12/13/11 10:10 PM Re: New Mexico man recounts mountain ordeal [Re: hikermor]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3822
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: hikermor
Learn something every day. So for many purposes, it is no better than your cell phone?


OnStar calls for help automagically if the airbags deploy. It tracks your car if you report it stolen and can kill the power remotely when the cops catch up to it, locking the thief or thieves inside. They can remotely unlock the doors if you lock yourself out. Exactly none of these things will work without cell service.

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