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#199080 - 03/27/10 11:34 PM Re: Fatal wolf attack in Alaska [Re: texican]
CANOEDOGS Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1828
Loc: MINNESOTA
Blast--throw this guy out for good and clean our "gene pool"

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#199081 - 03/28/10 01:08 AM Re: Fatal wolf attack in Alaska [Re: CANOEDOGS]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
I overhead a conversation once where a guy (apparently from Alaska) was telling someone else that he finds it frustrating how dumb some newcomers act. He said his new neighbor tied her small dog out on a leash to the front porch and came back to find the leash, part of a collar and a few drops of blood. She said something about not thinking that a bear or wolf would come right up to the house in broad daylight. He said he hates to have people constantly make mistakes that "train" the bears and wolves that the houses are sources of easy meals, because kids could be next. No tethered dog? Small kid, okay! Fresh meat is fresh meat. He also said some of the sled dog huskies will do the same thing.

Some people have to learn the hard way, and some people don't live long enough to learn.

Sue

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#199087 - 03/28/10 01:52 AM Re: Fatal wolf attack in Alaska [Re: CANOEDOGS]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2719
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By: CANOEDOGS
Blast--throw this guy out for good and clean our "gene pool"


Well, I agree his last post doesn't really fit with our community (stating it gently). The question is, is this individual willing to add value? Thoughtful analysis, personal experience, good questions, intelligent suggestions? That's the test. Jury's out, still deliberating. And Punishment Cat has no doubt opened one eyelid ever so slightly.


Edited by dougwalkabout (03/28/10 01:53 AM)

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#199113 - 03/28/10 02:53 PM Re: Fatal wolf attack in Alaska [Re: texican]
Compugeek Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 392
Loc: San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: texican
Joggers getting attacked by wild animals.... more gene pool cleansing. I feel sorry for the gal's parents. But, they should have raised their daughter better... running, for no good reason, is bad. I'd feel sorry for the woman, if she hadn't been running, got scared, and started running away.

<snip>


What's your source for "[She] got scared, and started running away"?

Running for health and fitness, or even just for pleasure, are perfectly good reasons.
_________________________
Okey-dokey. What's plan B?

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#199123 - 03/28/10 05:11 PM Re: Fatal wolf attack in Alaska [Re: texican]
NobodySpecial Offline
Member

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 197
Originally Posted By: texican
Pretty much every wild animal that preys on other animals, will chase down and attack anything that's running from them... it's instinct.

It depends on the animal.
All the cougar attacks here in modern times have been on joggers and mountain bikers, there haven't (AFAIK) been any on hikers.
It's simply that cats automatically chase anything that runs.

Wolves are largely scavengers near people (you don't get many wolf packs hunting through streets) so a pet dog or cat or trash cans raided are more common.
A desperate wolf might have risked attacking a lone person, but if they were running or not isn't likely a factor - except of course that if they were aware of the wolf in time they could probably have scared it off.



Edited by NobodySpecial (03/28/10 05:11 PM)

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#199136 - 03/28/10 07:57 PM Re: Fatal wolf attack in Alaska [Re: NobodySpecial]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
"A desperate wolf might have risked attacking a lone person, but if they were running or not isn't likely a factor - except of course that if they were aware of the wolf in time they could probably have scared it off."

Dogs evolved from wolves, and dogs will chase a running person, large or small, so why would you think wolves wouldn't?

Face it, most of the current crop of humans aren't really very smart, survival-wise. The woman was running with her ears plugged in predator country. For her, it was the end of the story.

I see people doing everything with those stupid earplugs in, running, walking, driving, shopping, etc, and wonder at their complacency. Do they think the world is such a safe place that they can literally afford to take leave of even one of their five senses?

I'm with Texican -- poor judgment + bad luck can be fatal, anywhere. She was Unlucky in Alaska. *shrugs*

Sue

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#199140 - 03/28/10 08:06 PM Re: Fatal wolf attack in Alaska [Re: dougwalkabout]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
"Well, I agree his last post doesn't really fit with our community (stating it gently)."

Do you mean that we can't call stupid, stupid? Why?

If people weren't so stupid in so many ways, they wouldn't be dying in so many ways.

Being a Politically Correct Bleeding Heart (PCBH) doesn't prevent idiocy, it doesn't prevent accidents, it doesn't prevent deaths, it doesn't prevent anything and it doesn't accomplish anything. And for me, after 60 years, it's gotten DA++ED tiresome!

Sue

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#199143 - 03/28/10 09:10 PM Re: Fatal wolf attack in Alaska [Re: Susan]
nursemike Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 788
Loc: wellington, fl
Originally Posted By: Susan

Do you mean that we can't call stupid, stupid? Why?

Sue

The thing that stops me from calling people stupid (or ill-equipped, poorly trained, or clumsy) is humility, or "there, but for the grace of god, go I". It is true that folks die in stupid ways. My brother, a vocational agriculture teacher with 7 years of ag school education and thirty years of farm experience, was killed by tipping a tractor over on himself. He knew better, but took a short cut. The world is unforgiving, and a momentary lapse of judgment or luck can offset years of training, great intelligence, solid practical skills and possession of a full array of DRPSK gear. The death rate is the same that it always has been: one per person; and whatever the cause of death, a skilled logician can nearly always identify some manner in which the dead person contributed to the demise. It is more gracious to acknowledge the passing and to move on.
_________________________
Dance like you have never been hurt, work like no one is watching,love like you don't need the money.

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#199152 - 03/28/10 11:44 PM Re: Fatal wolf attack in Alaska [Re: nursemike]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
Humans, including myself in this, are prone to developing blind spots, thinking short term, and accepting easy answers.

It works both, all, ways. Most Americans are in far more danger of facing the deadly consequences being overweight and not getting sufficient exercise than getting lunched by a wolf. Does that make the lady smarter, instead of dumber, than most Americans?

Most prepers, and pretty much all the survivalists I've seen (typical BMI pushing two-score), will die, like most Americans, from heart failure, cancer, or one of the other diseases of old age and indolence. The truth is most of us will never face the great emergency. No justification for heroic action or a blaze of glory will come. Most of us are sentenced to the ignobility of being average. Inevitably bee stings and slipping in the bath will take far more of us than wolves. Those are the odds. Reconcile yourself to these realities.

Several aspects have to be noted. First, there are a lot of things we don't know about in this case. Was she healthy when the wolves arrived? A stumble on the trail, wounded by a human in a sexual assault, an underlying medical condition, could have made her vulnerable. Those assuming that it couldn't happen to them are assuming a lot. Both that others are less capable, aware, talented, skilled and that they are more.

There are lessons on both ends. To be aware, skilled, prepared. But also to not assume your special, immune to error, always lucky when all else fails. 'Couldn't happen to me' sounds a lot like famous last words.

If nothing else making fun of others misfortune doesn't endear you to anyone. Most of us realize that we will stumble at some point. It is one thing to have it pointed out how things might have been handled differently. It is quite another to be labeled as stupid because something didn't go your way. It is all 'calculated risk' and adventure until it goes south. Then it is 'why the hell did they do that'?

How many people jog? How many people jog in areas where there are potentially dangerous animals? How many people are attacked by domestic animals. In most areas dogs kept as pets are far more dangerous than wolves.

I can't tell anyone what is, and what is not, an acceptable risk. I can't even tell myself, not with any consistency. You see, it changes. Too many times I've done things which I've told myself I couldn't, or wouldn't, do and now see it a reasonable. I also look back at some thing I've done and wonder what I was thinking. But I did it because, at some level, I thought it was a good idea. Or at least, an acceptable risk. So far, it has worked out.

It is hard to imagine that I'm both, special, if it works out; but stupid, if it doesn't.

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#199182 - 03/29/10 01:40 PM Re: Fatal wolf attack in Alaska [Re: NobodySpecial]
Compugeek Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 392
Loc: San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: NobodySpecial
All the cougar attacks here in modern times have been on joggers and mountain bikers, there haven't (AFAIK) been any on hikers.
It's simply that cats automatically chase anything that runs.


I don't know where your "here" is, but a quick search on "cougar attacks hiker" brought up examples.

Children seem to be preferred (probably due to size), followed by runners and cyclists, but hikers are by no means "disqualified".

Many of the victims never even had a chance to flee. They were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.
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