#232888 - 09/28/11 02:22 AM
Re: Pepper Spray question
[Re: GarlyDog]
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Addict
Registered: 11/24/05
Posts: 478
Loc: Orange Beach, AL
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I may as well mention what I've been carrying ever since it came out; Sabre Red Crossfire.
It may not be available everywhere but IMO it's worth checking out. The last time I looked into pepper spray Sabre was the only manufacturer to offer a "crossfire" technology that can be deployed from sub-optimal positions. That may have changed since I last looked.
Standard disclaimer; no affiliation just a satisfied customer.
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"There is not a man of us who does not at times need a helping hand to be stretched out to him, and then shame upon him who will not stretch out the helping hand to his brother." -Theodore Roosevelt
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#232895 - 09/28/11 06:22 AM
Re: Pepper Spray question
[Re: Susan]
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Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3823
Loc: USA
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If a man on PCP with two broken femurs can walk (somewhat) into an ER, how would pepper spray affect him? Not much. This specific point was addressed in some classes I've taken by a police officer who found out the hard way.
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#232912 - 09/28/11 04:09 PM
Re: Pepper Spray question
[Re: Bingley]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
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...the policemen who came on the scene objected to the formulation of the spray the poster used when they recognized it. Apparently it was known to continue to irritate people in the vicinity of the spray subject afterwards. I have read somewhere that the police generally do not use the most potent formulations of pepper spray primarily because the less concentrated versions work adequately, and the higher the concentration, the more difficult and time consuming it is to handle the suspect without contaminating the officers. You have to sit out in the open a lot longer to let 10% OC dissipate than 5% or to do eye flushes, etc. I assume that the situation may be different for more specialized uses, such as riot control or corrections, for instance. However, I find it hard to believe that the police would force a civilian transport a suspect unless there was more to the story, such as they were friends or family members or something like that.
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#232925 - 09/28/11 06:19 PM
Re: Pepper Spray question
[Re: GarlyDog]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
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Spray; it works. Its a good solution, far from perfect. But in terms of non/ less lethal response? Yep. Get some. Get two, in fact. And check the wind.
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#232993 - 09/30/11 03:31 AM
Re: Pepper Spray question
[Re: GarlyDog]
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Journeyman
Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 59
Loc: Missouri
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I am a state trooper. My agency issues Sabre Red brand in a stream dispencer. I have used it on dogs a few times, as well as some wild critters(not skunks). It worked well. I have only had to use it once on a human(jail fight), it worked satsfactory. I received wind blown overspray during training(we have to test fire the unit regularily)as I was down wind when another officer test fired his unit. I could function initialy, but then had to sit down and face into the wind in order to decontaiminate. I have not received a full face shot as our original training did not require doing so. From the little I got as overspray I DO NOT want to experience the full effect, it hurts! I prefer the stream as it allows for better targeting and less chance for me to get hit. Our training teaches us that it is NOT effective on all people and it does take several seconds to reach full effect on those it does work on. We are tought to fight through the effects if we are ever exposed. If we use it, we then take the suspect into custody and handcuff to prevent any other action on the suspect's part. If you ever have to use it, be prepared to take follow up action(run away, etc.)as it does not instantaneously stop the pricipating event.
For larger crowd control we have a larger pistol grip stream dispencer avialable. For civil disturbances we have CS as an option.
If you have to use it in a self-defense situtation, well and good. Any other use could constitute an assault. Check the laws where you live as there are many different ones. My information is based on what applies in my home state.
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#232995 - 09/30/11 03:38 AM
Re: Pepper Spray question
[Re: trooper0366]
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Geezer
Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
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I could function initialy, but then had to sit down and face into the wind ... Our training teaches us that it ... does take several seconds to reach full effect on those it does work on... If you ever have to use it, be prepared to take follow up action(run away, etc.)as it does not instantaneously stop the pricipating event. Well, that's interesting! With my lack of experience, I assumed that it worked instantaneously. Thanks! Sue
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#233017 - 09/30/11 04:59 PM
Re: Pepper Spray question
[Re: GarlyDog]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
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Just to add another angle. Since a specific application wasn't mentioned by the OP, there's one scenario I have contemplated for using an OC fogger.
For a burglary/home invasion-type scenario where your plan is to shelter in place until the police arrive, if you have time, a fogger could be discharged in the area outside your safe room to discourage someone from coming that way. Or perhaps discharging it in the stairwell leading up to the second floor or some other confined chokepoint. Obviously, it's only a deterrant, but if they aren't too motivated to get to you, it could do the trick.
And from a legal standpoint, I would think that someone who endures an OC filled hallway to get at you bolsters a self-defense case. They are probably incapacitated to some degree by the time they get near you, too, especially if they're breathing in that fine OC aerosol.
It would suck to decon your living space afterward, but that's a small price to pay if it works.
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#233088 - 10/01/11 08:18 PM
Re: Pepper Spray question
[Re: GarlyDog]
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Journeyman
Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 76
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i rarely post here, but i know pepper spray, haha. whole adult life in the security field - corporate, industrial, retail and government.
the thing to remember about pepper spray is that it is not a fight-ender 100% of the time. many refer to it as an 'eye jab in a can' and it should be treated as such.
as with any defensive (or offensive weapons), the bad guy shouldn't know what's coming until you've employed it...you should be quick, as accurate as possible and deliberate in your actions. look up the term OODA loop and see the role pepper spray plays.
what do i prefer? i prefer a cone fog...not only does pepper spray inflame skin and mucous membranes, but part of the fun is how it attacks the respiratory system. if you can introduce a good quantity directly into their lungs, you don't have to worry about them 'fighting through it', as when you can't breathe, you can't fight.
my second vote would be for a good ol'fashioned stream...saturate the bums and let them wallow.
yes, there is a small population who are more tolerant to spray than others. these are mostly people who have been exposed before or are too hyped up on adrenaline to care....there is no such thing as immunity. if they are relatively unperturbed by the spray, use that can as a fist load and get your hammer-fist on. repeat as necessary.
speaking of fighting through it - don't be afraid of employing pepper spray because you might miss or get some on you...if you use it knowing that you could get affected, you'll be expecting a reaction...just deal with it and get through it. again, pepper spray wont kill you and if you have to, just hold your eyes open and keep fighting.
haha, lastly - the worst part about pepper spray is not being sprayed, per se, its that evening when you take a shower thinking that you've gotten all of the oc out of your hair...nope, it is reactivated and runs right down the front of you...FUN!
ps - there is NO 'antidote' for pepper spray...just fresh water and time.
pps - get rid of the pepper spray keychains. they are entirely way too hard to handle under stress...
Edited by rumbaugh (10/01/11 08:19 PM) Edit Reason: ...what paul said.
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