In reply to k2ixe's post in the other forum:

You know, I'm kind of embarrassed to have to admit it, but you do have a point.

I was looking at it in terms of a company knowingly selling a "dangerous" product. But I suppose you could make the same argument about a company that makes hatchets - are they to be held responsible every time somebody chops off his own foot?

I guess the test should be to ask, "Was the danger obvious?" In the case of an axe, or a knife, or a stove, I think the answer must be "yes". Likewise, I have to admit that anyone with a brain should know that coffee is made with boiling water, and that it therefore has the potential to scald.

I'd still like to know what temperature most restaurant equipment is set at. If most restaurant equipment is set to keep coffee at a temperature hot enough to satisfy the customer, but not hot enough to cause life-threatening burns, then why did McD's consider it necessary to serve it hot enough to hospitalize?

I'm going to dig out the thermometer from my old dark room and measure the temperature of the coffee in my little home coffee-brewer, just out of curiosity.

Actually, it's not an original point, and I'm embarased to say _I_ didn't think of it until someone pointed it out to me about 2-3 months back! Guy asked me how hot the water I was pouring into my tea was. My answer was "Boiling" - he said, "Heck of a lot hotter than 180 deg, huh?" THAT is whn I went from "That McDs coffee WAS a bit too hot, the original settlement was silly, but the cut down settlement was OK" to, "Duh, coffee IS that hot"

AFAIK, water boils at 100°C (212°F) .... at sea level.
or is it 90° ??? no - that's the right angle ........ <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Not being a coffe drinker, I guess you make coffe by pouring boiling water on the grounds ... then the temperature just depends on how long you wait before serving that coffe....
or, in restaurants, the setting of the warm-keeping plate on which the pot stands .....

OTOH, maybe you make coffee not with grounds, but with some preparation (no brand names, please !), and then boiling water is not necessary ?????? <img src="images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, I guess you never make coffe (or tea) with lukewarm water.
So, caution is ALWAYS mandatory.
The only responsability I could think of, would be to serve that coffe in an adequat container (resisting that temperature ; permitting a good hold without scorching your hand ; with a cap if it's "to go")



Alain

A Frenchman who doesn’t drink coffee, eh! <img src="images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> That’s ok, You do have it right, water will boil at 100 degrees Celsius and 212 degrees Fahrenheit. However, water boils less than 212/100 the higher one goes in altitude. Water at my place (3745’ or 1141.48 m) boils at 204 degrees Fahrenheit or about 96 degrees Celsius.

The National Sanitary Foundation recommends that coffee in restaurants be served between 175-185 degrees Fahrenheit (80-85 C) McDonald's in response to consumer complaints of the coffee being too cold on arrival at work, raised the temperature to between 200 and 210 degrees F just slightly off boil. This was after a survey was done and 5,000 respondents complained of the coffee being too cold. However, about 7200 people complained the coffee was too hot when they first received the coffee. In settling the lawsuit (one of many) McDonald’s was told to turn the temp down. McDonald’s now serves their coffee from 185-190 degrees F.

Coffee can be made from boiling water by placing the grounds directly into the boiling water. This method has many different names, such as campfire and cowboy coffee. There are also a couple of ways to remove the coffee before serving. Method one is to take about ½ cup of cold water per 12 cups of coffee and pour it on the top. The grounds instantly sink. Method 2 is the press method or French press. Basically a special pot is used to steep the coffee and then before serving a plunger is pushed which “pushes” a wire screen to the pot bottom thereby pushing the grounds down. Either way, it makes for a very great cup of coffee. <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Take care,
Stargazer

ASAP = Always Suspicious, Always Prepared

Did I already say that I learn something, everyday I'm on this forum ??!?

I don't drink coffe, but I feel obliged to be able to prepare some, when friends come to eat at my place.
So I bought what you call a French press (didn't knew that was the name of it), and some coffe. Problem is I don't use this very often and every time I have to read the user's manuel to check how much water for how much grounds .... <img src="images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Well I guess I should invite friends more often .....
<img src="images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />


About Mc Donald coffee : 5000 costumer wanted it warmer and 7200 cooler ?!
amazing !
Thanks for all those infos.


Alain

Frenchy, A good rule of thumb for making coffee is a 1/1 ratio or 1 rounded tablespoon to 1 6 oz cup. (US measures) If your friends complain it is too strong or too weak have them make it to their liking. I see nothing wrong with that.

Take care,
Stargazer

ASAP = Always Suspicious, Always Prepared

I personally agree with a certain frenchman famous for dismantling le golden arches. I patronise le Bon Bread, an amazing french bakery run by women in traditional breton lace, ancient records of Joni James, Maurice Chevalier and Edith Piaf played at a manageable volume and a mysterious Citroen traction-avanti parked out front with a man smoking galluase cigarettes. I spilled my coffee there once,in the rain. It was a fine spill. the kind of spill that Hemingway would remember for a short story.