I was going to become pilot. After taking a few intriductory lesson, i decided not to. I also was going to be a paramedic/volenteer EMT, regardless of any other job that i do. I decided that I wanted to do research on this as a full time career. When I chatted to a family member about this, they looked at me and said "come on, you have the potential to be more than that." My dirty look initiated the response "umm, well, I mean, you know, I'm not saying anything about paramedics, I just think that you have the abilty to do much more and experience more opertunities...[mumble, mumble mumble]"

Frankly, that pissed me off. Now, if paramedics got paid the same as a docter, or Chartered accountant, or pilot, I wonder what her response would have been?

My question then is, is money as big an issue to a paramedic as this person seems to think? if so then how do you getting around that if you are determined to follow this career?

[I apologise for the rant. this person really hit a nerve today, and i'd like to find out from people who actually are involved in the emergency services. Grrrrrrr...]

I get the same sort of thing when I tell people i'm studying Archaeology (although its obviously not in the same vein as a paramedic is a much more important and difficult job).
"Well, archaeology's good as a hobby but, a career?"
Money isn't everything. <img src="images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

WOFT:

I have had the same problem for 24 years or so now. I have known several family members and friends who just “look down their nose” when they have found out that I volunteer with a ambulance service. First I was a police officer and later learned to be an EMT. Now I am an intermediate trained EMT and a part-time or reserve police officer.

Today, I work in real estate full time and while I enjoy this work, I still have some people think I could have done better. It has never been about the money, but rather about personal satisfaction. I have sure you probably have the heard the saying that “If you work at a job you truly love—you never really work.” I can assure you that this is true. Yes, I wear many hats and although real estate allows for more personal freedom the job satisfaction is definitely not the same. It did however help pay for my pilot lessons as a private pilot.

Sadly many people of our society put emphasis on success with the amount of material possessions you can acquire. This is really how people have been raised and they really believe this. I would much rather be happy then to be wealthy and miserable. I say follow your heart and find out what you want not what anybody else expects you to do. I have known several paramedics and EMT’s to move on and finish their education to become Doctor’s, Nurses, Lawyers and other professional occupations. There is also the burnout factor, which contributes to job dissatisfaction. Most cite the money issue, some the demand of the job, some the lack of training. Those who experience this eventually leave the job.

I read a statistic, which stated the “average” paramedic has just 8 years experience and rare is the case of a permanent career. This was an actual quote from the US Dept. of Labor. Nurses averaged about the same. In each case job burnout was cited as the primary reason for leaving the occupation. Not mentioned however are the costs of training (initial) and the cost of retraining. All is not gloom and doom though. I know several people with the same amount of time-in-service, some who have made it 30 years and some that retire from the occupation. I even have considered moving to full time EMS and doing real estate part-time.

Take care,
Stargazer

ASAP= Always Suspicious, Always Prepared

Shame on whoever you were talking to, if paramedics were paid what they're worth, we couldn't afford them. Some professions are followed from the heart (paramedic, fire fighter, police, teacher) not the wallet. I thank God every day that there are people out there willing to do what has to be done for the good of others. I'm a Union Laborer by trade, currently working the nukes, THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart to those of you who work in "giving" professions.

Troy

Woft and Ditchfield,
I find the same thing occuring to me.
"What you want to be when u finish A levels?"
"I am interested in becoming a paramedic"
and their instand response is
"oh come on, you can do better than that!"

Reinhardt

How much is the life of your loved one worth to you? How much would you pay somebody to save your family member when they are dying? Personally I would give everything. But entry level careers in emergency medical field don’t pay enough. I'm an EMT and I still have a second job to manage my finances. Right now I started paramedic course which will put things in the better light once I graduate.

EMTs work in the background. Every fire, shooting, car accident, assault has medical workers in the background doing his job. We patch people up, bring them to the hospital and do our best to keep them alive. PD and FD get all the glory. Do we care? Of course not. Our biggest reward is seeing patient who was on the way out to be back in full swing. Unfortunately our profession is looked down upon. We see people at their worst. And we deal with people who would not be your choice of friends on the regular bases. It’s an honorable and humble profession and most important it’s a job. If somebody is putting it down ask them what difference did they make lately in the world? I saved somebody’s xmas by saving their dad. I can’t be everywhere but I can make a change one patient at the time.

Plus health is a funny issue to talk about. People don’t want to admit it that they are sick or they have a problem. People don’t want to face the fact that they just brushed with death due to accident, life style or age. They treat medics are their enemies because we are evil. We ask all the “shameful” questions which sometimes are uncomfortable. I will ask you if you drink, smoke, do drugs, if you are suicidal, your medical history, problems, etc, etc… It will make you upset because when faced with two complete strangers who just found out that you called 911 because you felt dizzy and ready to pass out but in reality you drunk 3 pints of vodka and now you do realize that you may have a problem. Or that you are 400 lbs with 2 heart attacks and you are going into another one yet on your bed table you have a glass that is filled with gravy. Or that you just beat your wife up and she stabbed you… I know things about you that should have stayed behind closed doors and that makes people to be ashamed. Many think they are invincible but that’s not the case.

Plus going lights and sirens for coffee and donuts doesn’t help our image either. <img src="images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Matt EMTB/Paramedic Student

Stargazer:

Interesting statistic. I left career EMS about 8 years ago. I could probably count 1 or 2 people that I worked with that are still in the EMS field that are not in upper management.

BTW: I still get nightmares about that job <img src="images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />


Chris

Sorry not to have replied any sooner, but we were away for most of the weekend, plus I wanted to formulate carefully my response to this post. First of all, some people are impressed by titles, rather than what the individual does as a person. What I mean by this; is that a person who equates whatever their particular job or skill they possess in terms of how they can best be of service to others, is in my book the most worthy of society. A street sweeper who performs their job with earnest and does so because they know they are providing a valuable service to humanity by creating a sanitary and esthetically pleasing environment, is, in my humble opinion of great value to society. A doctor, scientist or businessperson who does not put the needs of their patients, society or clients first, again in my humble opinion, is not fulfilling the purpose of life, as I understand life’s purpose.

The following is my history with Emergency Services and decided to give you some idea of my background and am not in any way tooting my horn. I feel you should know where I am coming from and where my experiences have led me to, in deciding what is important in life. I became an EMT-A (now EMT-B) back in the mid 70’s. I was active for a little over one year, and then got married, family life took priority, so I dropped my certification for many years. At the onset of Gulf War I, in the early 90’s, I observed numerous reports of shortages in EMS, fire and law enforcement personnel since many of them were in the Reserves and were being called up for active service. I discussed the situation with my wife and decided to reactivate my EMT-A status. Since the company I joined, primarily was a fire department, I took firefighting classes as well, completing FFIII National Certification. At the time technical rescue was also added to the pot and have taken more classes in this area then I can list. I completed CRT (EMT-I) classes back in 94’ and then completed Paramedic classes in 96’s, so I have been an active ALS provider for almost 10 years. Career wise, I have an MS in Biomedical Sciences and have been employed at the National Cancer Institute- Frederick for over 28 years in the Biomedical field.

In response to those of you that have encountered individuals/family who may look down at EMS provides and at paramedics in particular, they should be made aware that short of a physician, paramedics are the highest level of pre-hospital care provider in an emergency setting, higher than RN’s, NP’s and PA’s. Many of the skills paramedics perform can only be performed by a trained physician and generally a trauma or ED physician at that. Gone are the days of EMS providers being ambulance attendants, they are all professional emergency care providers, career or volunteer, it does not matter. In many states paramedics (including Maryland – where I live) are licensed, just like MD’s, PA’s, NP’s and RN’s by the State Board of Medical Examiners. In many states, paramedic education requires a two year AAS or four year BS in emergency medical services. Just as nurses have had to fight to gain professional recognition, paramedics are in the early stages of this endeavor as well. It should be noted that in part due to the lack of support/respect nurses have received in an historical context, within the US, a significant nursing shortage exists. With the expanded scope of practice, additional educational requirements and increasing demand of the number of paramedics, shortages are also anticipated. Becoming a paramedic strictly to do so as a volunteer is becoming more and more difficult with all of the additional requirements. Paramedic salaries are where PA’s were years ago. In our area, paramedic starting salaries are around $35,000 plus. I was talking to a paramedic supervisor from a near by jurisdiction and with overtime he grossed over $100,000 last year, not to bad and a lot more than I make in my chosen field. Pete

To all who replied, Thank You.

Pete
What are MD’s, PA’s, NP’s and RN’s?

Matt
I hope I don't step on your toes, but what is your other occupation?

MD = Medical Doctor
PA = Physician's Assistant - an "almost Dr" - they can do a LOT of medical procedures as long as they are under the (very) loose control of an MD - if I remeber right, it can be by phone in many cases
NP = Nurse Practitioner -Slightly lower down the scale - Don't remember exactly what their rights are
RN = Registered Nurse - aka, a REAL nurse - gone through REAL schooling. These folks are the real front line troops in the average hospital

PAs and NPs were an outgrowth of the MD shortage of the 50s, 60s, 70s etc. They fill the nitch between a nurse, and an MD. The first time _I_ heard the concept was in a 1940s article that proposed the idea of a "Nursing Dr"

Sorry about the use of initials without first defining them and thanks to kc2ixe for picking up on my slack. Sometimes I forget that this is an international forum and the US healthcare system is not familiar to all forum members. To add a few comments:

All are well-educated and well-trained healthcare professionals who provide much needed medical care in the appropriate setting.

PA’s can stand for Physician’s Assistant or Physician’s Associate. Their scope of practice will depend upon the state in which they seek to practice. In many states they can prescribe certain medications, perform physicals, perform certain medical procedures (i.e. suturing, evaluating x-rays for fractures) and act as an extension of the physician. You may find them in doctor’s offices providing basic health care, nursing homes and emergency departments.

NP’s or Nurse Practitioners are generally holders of Master Degrees in Nursing have had their RN (Register Nurse) for a period of time. In many states they can prescribe medications, perform detailed health exams and recommend a course of treatment for various conditions. Again, many are found in doctor’s offices providing basic health care, nursing homes and emergency departments. Depending upon the state, NP’s can set up their own nursing practice.


Some of the roles of PA’s and NP’s are blurred and are dependent upon the state in which the individual wishes to practice.

My point in the original post was to point out some of uniqueness and specialization of each of these healthcare professionals and that each is a valued member of the healthcare system. To give you an idea of the specialization of skills (again may vary by state), most inter-hospital transports of Advanced Life Support (ALS) patients requires both a RN and Paramedic to accompany the patient. The RN generally monitors medication and medical procedures initiated in the hospital i.e. I.V. drips, catheters, chest tubes, where the paramedic is there to provide ALS interventions such as intubations, cardoversion and certain Advanced Cardiac Life Support (ACSL) medications, that are out of the scope of practice for the RN. In some areas (inter-hospital flight transport is one example), individuals are required to have both, an RN and paramedic standing. Emergency Medical Technicians (EMT’s) whether they are EMT-B (Basic)’s, EMT-I (Intermediate)’s or EMT-P (Paramedic)’s, are all healthcare professionals and are vital members of the pre-hospital emergency medical system. Hope some of this helps. Pete

Pete,
On my list of "want to do" is take my EMT-B classes - just "for me" - probably next year, post elections. My wife has given me the OK. Don't intend to USE it much - I already do enoungh Vol work with ARES, but I class it as "good to know"

BTW My wife has family in your area - Some in Fredrick, some over in Jefferson

I think the class wil be of great value and you should enjoy the experience.

Frederick County as a whole has grown too fast too soon. Jefferson, while it is also growing, is still, for the most part, small town USA. Pete

Thanks kc2ixe and Pete. That puts the system in perspective now.

The only certain thing for my near future is that i will take a gap year when i finish high school this year. I want to do a surf-lifesaving course and the equivalent (I think) of an EMT-B course before i go to America to be a counsler on a "summer camp". From there, i will travel with a mate of mine.

[daydream on] Oh, to experience the wonders of real mil-spec #550 paracord, sparlites, spydercos, strarflashes, Moras, swedish fire steels, altoids mints (and tins)... [daydream continued]

Sounds good to me.

Thanks to Bagheera, I now own (since Monday) a sparklite and a swedish military firesteel, and soon a starflash (from him again <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)
I also have a mora and some Altoids mints and tins (from UK)
Sorry, I didn't mean to brag. <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hmmm... been in and around emergency medicine for a very long time. My sister is a career paramedic (20 years and counting) and makes about $62,000 a year, so the pay isn't all that bad, trust me. It's good field to get into.

Ditchfield. Feel free to add any of that stuff to the "lending library" <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />. And if it is a hassle, I'll pay for the shipping!

Hmmm <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. I could probably send you some tins of Altoids if you really wanted <img src="images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

Oh Joy! It's Christmas all over again!

yeah bagheera is a great source for goodies, how did YOU pay for it ? I got a sparklite, firesteels, titanium spork, glowring, chuncks of mayawood and pink wax paper from him. I somehow can't manage to emty those altoid mint, had to resort to giving the contents away once ( was getting despirate ), no mora's, but i got the beter swedish stuff, F1 and S1 fallkniven, yeah this IS braging, but atleast i admit it ! <img src="images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> I hope mine starflash and mine newpackpack arrives tomorrow, they are suppose to be sent in one day, but occationally it takes 2 days.. tomorow is day 2, so either much joy or a getting very ******

Well boo to you <img src="images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. I also got a load of maya wood and wax paper. He really is a great bloke. I payed by buying him some stuff from raymears.com. Maybe my starflash will arrive tomorrow, the race is on (unless you've already got yours).

well i got mine starflash yesterday ! <img src="images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> bit smaller than i expected, but much more clearer than mine BCB mirrors. come's with a peel off layer protective layer, and placed in a ziploc baggy.

Well <img src="images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> to BOTH of you - I have had an AUTHENTIC, ORIGINAL Starflash for a couple of weeks now, thanks to TOB9595. I also got wire saw, lifeboat matches and tiny little amber glass vials. So, I guess I am not that far behind!

(PS. If you are interested in trading stuff, please PM me - I can trade opinal knives (in diffenent colors as well!), MagFire magnesium firestarters and biltong <img src="images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />. Well, If I think of anything else i'll let you know!)

Alright, you both beat me on the Starflash front. Well I have Moras <img src="images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> and ........uh, Brit army webbing, hexi burners, water bottles, clothes, gloves. So there PC2K <img src="images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Alright, thats enough. <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'll never forget what my dad told me. I asked him about doing volunteer work for something or other, and he replied, "If they're not going to pay you, then someone considers that it's not worth getting paid for."

I'm not saying I agree with him, but it has given me food for thought over the years.

Whenever someone promotes getting out in the world and volunteering, they're telling you to go do something that society thinks it's not worth getting paid for. You have to be able to afford not getting paid.

When I heard how little NYC firefighters were paid, I thought it a crime. It's a dreadfully important job and should be compensated accordingly. It is not.

Some CEOs make horrible decisions that cost ordinary people their life savings. Then they get raises and bonuses.

It sure is one cockeyed world.

With all due respect, I could not disagree with you more. Volunteering to perform a duty for your community has nothing to do with financial compensation that individuals receive for the performance of their chosen career and everything to do what is a basic human value – the desire to help others with your skills and time. The countless number of hours that Scout Leaders, Emergency Service Responders, Big Brother/Sister, school mentors and hundreds, no thousands of other job descriptions, are not valued less by society, in fact I would argue are valued more, for they are from the heart. Individuals motivated to volunteer in their communities are the heart and soul of that community, the unsung heroes, they represent the noblest of attributes, the desire to help others, for nothing more than the knowledge it is the right thing to do. This, in no way diminishes the dedication or value of those individuals who perform these tasks as a chosen career, for they too often are undervalued in terms of their compensation. Pete

I think I failed to state my case clearly. Maybe I had yet another migraine at the time. I'll try again.

I am not looking down my nose at the people who volunteer to serve in jobs that don't pay much or anything at all. My own community has an all-volunteer fire and ambulance department. God knows how we'd get along without them.

My question is, is this country so badly off that we cannot pay these volunteers a living wage? We citizens are taxed to the ceilings as is. Take some of those taxes, and either start paying these volunteers or pay them more. Pay them a living wage.

While we're on this subject, why are some Fire Deparment and Ambulance Corps members "volunteers," but Police are always paid?

Why aren't there any volunteer Police Departments?

Auxiliary Police Programs??? That's voluntary

You've got me there. I never knew such a thing existed.

Hey, I learned something today!

I agree with paramedicpete that being a volunteer does not necessarily mean that people don't value your services. Often, the people you're serving may simply not be able to afford to pay a salary to everyone involved.

Having said that, I do have a problem with organisations that are turning a handsome profit on their activities, but use volunteers because they're too cheap to pay for the service. (For example, I volunteered at a "Western Days" county fair east of Calgary last summer. They were attracting huge crowds, and I'm pretty sure they were making money hand over fist; but I spent 12-14 hours there volunteering and they made us pay for our own lunch.) But I think what goes around, comes around; organisations that don't appreciate the work their volunteers put in end up finding it difficult, or impossible, to attract those volunteers. It's the volunteer organisations that treat you like a valued guest, rather than an unpaid employee, that get people wanting to participate. Personally, I'm never going back there.

As polak187 has pointed out, there are volunteer positions with some police departments, but I don't think you'll ever see a wholly volunteer police department. The problem is that police have a lot of power, and some might well volunteer for the wrong reasons or let it go to their heads. Whereas, very few people volunteer as a firefighter because they wanna bust heads...

A friend of mine, who used to run her own catering company, has been volunteering with her church, that has a large soup kitchen program. The minister in charge dearly wants the soup kitchen to be entirely run by volunteers. My friend has tried, so far in vain, to convince the minister that this is simply impossible. Volunteers may mean well, but soup kitchens have to meet the same health code as any other restaurant, and without a professionally trained restaurant manager (food services manager, whatever you want to call them) they could end up being shut down by the city, or worse. (Being a charitable organisation does not make you exempt from lawsuits, as the Roman Catholic Church and the Canadian Red Cross have found out.)