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#231459 - 09/05/11 07:38 PM Re: Hi guys I am newbie and need some help [Re: Teslinhiker]
zodiac340 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 08/29/11
Posts: 13
Originally Posted By: Teslinhiker
Originally Posted By: zodiac340
Originally Posted By: MDinana
Originally Posted By: zodiac340
Well I got the canoe, its a tank al right, but in excellent condition. We spent 5 hours on the lake with it. i found it a bit difficult to maneuver but still fun. it was a battle keeping it straight. is that normal? My other Coleman was 18 foot fiberglass and I cant recall this much work. But it was a blast however. We were the envy of many people in their tiny narrow over loaded canoes. lol. I found it rocked a lot too. How can I stabilize it with DIY method?


- It's hard to keep straight if you have 2 different strength people. This'll normalize with time as you learn each other's tempo. I'd put the stronger person in back.

- If you have items in the canoe with you, balance the load better. Second, stop moving around so much! Canoes rock. It shouldn't be too much. If it is, chances are one of the two above are the problem. The only other DIY is to make an outrigger, in which case, welcome to the South Seas!


I was the weaker one and I was in the back, he was the stronger and tallker and bigger in general and he was in front. So perhaps we will try this weekend and see if its any better with him behind. He is the one who kept moving his booty and causing it to rock. also coming out of it ws difficult cuz it rocked like hello. I suppose this is not a boat you can put a little anchor in and jump off for a swim is it`? Getting back on will surely tip it, wont it?


In terms of the rocking, all canoes handle differently and once you get more familiar with the RAM-X, it will soon seem to be less rockier.

As for keeping the canoe tracking straight, I agree with MDinana, your husband should be in the back and he can then adapt his stronger paddling strokes to match yours. This should allow the canoe to track in a more straighter line.



I will try this for sure on the weekend and see waht happens. Now when floating down a moving river, does this same principle apply? I remember my coleman fiberglass used to be so stable I could stand in it and row. Will not even try to do that with this one. I wonder if the keel in this canoe makes it less stable?

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#231466 - 09/05/11 11:08 PM Re: Hi guys I am newbie and need some help [Re: zodiac340]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 5728
Loc: southern Cal
Keels usually enhance hull stability (rolling). The contour of the hull (in cross section) is often the culprit.
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#231494 - 09/06/11 06:41 AM Re: Hi guys I am newbie and need some help [Re: zodiac340]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By: zodiac340

thanks for the advice. What dou you mean by steer? What must I do paddle or what do I do to steer?


The first part of your paddling stroke is normal. Somewhere between a halfway and a almost finished stroke you twist the blade sideways. It now acts as a rudder, allowing you to steer. Push it sideways. Normally that would be away from the canoe, but any move that gets you where you want to go is permitted.

If you need to steer the other way you may also just put the paddle on the other side of the canoe.

Do a quick google video search for "canoe J stroke" or "canoe L stroke" and you should have plenty of ideas to different things you can try out with your oar. (One example here, just the first random google link I found: http://www.redrockstore.com/Jstroke/index.html )

Paddling is teamwork. In a perfect world, the effort of front and back paddler is balanced so you go straight. In the real world, the back padler has to compensate some way or another. The front padler dictates the rhythm of the strokes and the rear padler is the one that steers.


Originally Posted By: zodiac340

I thought the bow had to be deepest in the water that is why I put him up front.


No, it's the other way around, the rear should be deeper or the boat becomes impossible to steer. We're not talking about excesses here - an inch deeper in the rear than in the front is plenty. Maybe as little as half an inch. Try it out and get a feel for what works best for you.

Originally Posted By: zodiac340

Should I put some extra weight in the boat next trip?


Possibly. If you keep your husband in front, absolutely. If he goes to the rear extra weight probably isn't necessary.

Originally Posted By: zodiac340

Rhine... deep ... I dont want to tip there at all.

[/quote]

I can understand that ... but there's really no reason for you to tip unless you deliberately push the boundaries. Nevertheless, with all the traffic on Rhine I'd stick close to the river bank.



Edited by MostlyHarmless (09/06/11 06:42 AM)

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#231673 - 09/08/11 08:34 AM Re: Hi guys I am newbie and need some help [Re: hikermor]
zodiac340 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 08/29/11
Posts: 13
Originally Posted By: hikermor
Keels usually enhance hull stability (rolling). The contour of the hull (in cross section) is often the culprit.


You mean that T bar that is in the middle that should actually be a third seat?

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#231674 - 09/08/11 08:36 AM Re: Hi guys I am newbie and need some help [Re: MostlyHarmless]
zodiac340 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 08/29/11
Posts: 13
Originally Posted By: MostlyHarmless
Originally Posted By: zodiac340

thanks for the advice. What dou you mean by steer? What must I do paddle or what do I do to steer?


The first part of your paddling stroke is normal. Somewhere between a halfway and a almost finished stroke you twist the blade sideways. It now acts as a rudder, allowing you to steer. Push it sideways. Normally that would be away from the canoe, but any move that gets you where you want to go is permitted.

If you need to steer the other way you may also just put the paddle on the other side of the canoe.

Do a quick google video search for "canoe J stroke" or "canoe L stroke" and you should have plenty of ideas to different things you can try out with your oar. (One example here, just the first random google link I found: http://www.redrockstore.com/Jstroke/index.html )

Paddling is teamwork. In a perfect world, the effort of front and back paddler is balanced so you go straight. In the real world, the back padler has to compensate some way or another. The front padler dictates the rhythm of the strokes and the rear padler is the one that steers.


Originally Posted By: zodiac340

I thought the bow had to be deepest in the water that is why I put him up front.


No, it's the other way around, the rear should be deeper or the boat becomes impossible to steer. We're not talking about excesses here - an inch deeper in the rear than in the front is plenty. Maybe as little as half an inch. Try it out and get a feel for what works best for you.

Originally Posted By: zodiac340

Should I put some extra weight in the boat next trip?


Possibly. If you keep your husband in front, absolutely. If he goes to the rear extra weight probably isn't necessary.

Originally Posted By: zodiac340

Rhine... deep ... I dont want to tip there at all.



I can understand that ... but there's really no reason for you to tip unless you deliberately push the boundaries. Nevertheless, with all the traffic on Rhine I'd stick close to the river bank.

[/quote]


You live and you learn. I wonder how I used to paddle so well in my fiberglass without ever tipping or it being unstable? I often used to be able to stand and row as well. I dare not do this in this one.

I will follow your advice and give it a try on sunday. thanks much

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#231676 - 09/08/11 12:54 PM Re: Hi guys I am newbie and need some help [Re: zodiac340]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By: zodiac340
I wonder how I used to paddle so well in my fiberglass without ever tipping or it being unstable? I often used to be able to stand and row as well. I dare not do this in this one.


Different body shapes behave VERY different in the water. A totally flat bottom gives you very high initial (primary) stability. This feels rather safe. The downside is that if you push the boundaries it will flip instantly, with little warning.

A round bottom has very little initial stability. Every little move makes the canoe tumble sideways. This feels rather unstable - but quite often a round (pear shaped) bottom will give you great secondary stability. I.e. there is little resistance to small tilts, but a very large resistance to bigger tilts.

It takes a while to get used to the more "lively" response of a canoe with poor initial stability - but such a canoe may be just as resistant to tipping as a flat bottomed canoe.

And yes, there are highly unstable round bottom canoes out there... but those are typical a special design for experienced racing paddlers (Those boats are very thin and long, with as little resistance as possible).

Have a look here... http://www.redrockstore.com/canoes/characteristics/stability.htm

and here: wikipedia

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