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#229680 - 08/11/11 02:50 PM Re: AA+ is that it? [Re: Russ]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2111
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
Originally Posted By: Russ
True Jeanette, but one is real and the other virtual.

Yes it is virtual. The whole point of a virtual exercise is to learn how to deal with a situation before it happens.

Originally Posted By: Russ
Moving from the virtual world to the real world (where some peeps do not follow the rules) is easier said than done.

That is also true. For one, I do not have the money to put into practice what I have learned so far.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
“Trust me, this is not gonna end well!” — Pleakley, Lilo & Stitch

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#229681 - 08/11/11 03:02 PM Re: AA+ is that it? [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Russ Online   content
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5169
Loc: SOCAL
It's an interesting mental exercise for dealing with different situations, but you will not know how well what you learn works, until you try it in the real world. Reading history is another way to learn.

Does your computer model take into account deceit, treachery and a general lack of honesty in its virtual construct? When times are tough, expecting everyone to be totally honest is a bit naive IMO. Human nature won't change much.

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#229682 - 08/11/11 03:14 PM Re: AA+ is that it? [Re: Russ]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2111
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
Originally Posted By: Russ
Does your computer model take into account deceit, treachery and a general lack of honesty in its virtual construct? When times are tough, expecting everyone to be totally honest is a bit naive IMO. Human nature won't change much.

If you are referring to thieves, yes. We will be dealing with them in many forms.

This is perhaps the biggest area where virtual falls short. Protecting ones self in the real world cannot be compared to protecting ones self in a virtual setting.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
“Trust me, this is not gonna end well!” — Pleakley, Lilo & Stitch

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#229683 - 08/11/11 03:25 PM Re: AA+ is that it? [Re: Alex]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
I have to admit NuggetHoarder makes some convincing arguments. If the sky doesn't fall, that just means I picked up some new hobbies and skills. I'm reminded that I need to reconnect with my brother-in-law who's a general surgeon.

As for people who mock this level of preparation, who cares? It doesn't matter what people say. Use your own reasoning skills. If you play sports, then you fully understand that all the talking outside the game doesn't show up on the scoreboard. What matters is how you play the actual game.
_________________________
If you're reading this, it's too late.

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#229684 - 08/11/11 03:57 PM Re: AA+ is that it? [Re: NuggetHoarder]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Quote:
That's for sure. My thoughts on the best strategy goes something like this...

Let's pretend that last night the Chinese dumped all their treasury bond holdings and we all woke up this morning and the headlines said "US Dollar collapses, Treasuries in Freefall - Interest rates skyrocket" and "Banks Closed in Emergency Move"

Now, what set of circumstances in your personal life could you conjur up that would make you say "So what, that's not a big deal for me"

The answer is that you would own your own land free and clear, you would have zero debt, and a good portion of your land would be under cultivation and you would own some livestock. Most, if not all, of your daily food would come directly from your land or from your immediate neighbors. Like Unimogbert said, you'd also have stored food, good neighbors, tools and materials for home repair, defense firearms, some barter goods, and books of how to do things for oneself. Sounds a bit more like 1911 instead of 2011.

In addition to that, you'd need some wealth stored up. Gold and silver are obvious choices. Energy will also be an issue and you can either store it, which is difficult at best, or have something of value to trade for it.

Notice that by doing all these things you will have separated yourself, by and large, from the banking system. You are insulated.

Now we can go further into the details, like how would you get healthcare, but those are just details. When the dollar collapses, I guarantee that you will be able to find a doctor who will trade you a chicken for setting a broken arm. It really is that simple.

My main point is that to survive the collapse of the dollar, you have to separate yourself from the banking system as much as possible. Even with all this preparation, things won't be easy. It will be hard, but at least you'd have a fighting chance at getting through it relatively unscathed.

In the end, lots of politicians will be voted out, lots of bankers will die broke, and we will most definitely get a new currency. But it will take time - on the order of many months of unrest, upheaval and uncertainty. Currency collapses are never pretty.

We're still a ways off from the demise of the dollar. There is still plenty of time to get started. Going by history, the next phase in most currency collapses would be hyperinflation. That phase could start at anytime. Once the hyperinflation starts, the inevitable currency collapse will take place within months, not years.


I would also add that although the advice given above is very sound, it should also take into account, that if there was a collapse as described that what actions you take to mitigate this collapse on a personal level, the emergency civil powers enacted (secret powers even Congress hasn't a clue about) by the Government should also be taken on board.

This would most likely involve the collection of Gold and Silver (making monetary trades in metals almost impossible (as occured in the US during the depression years of the 1930s), the collection of firearms (as previously occurred during the Katrina debacle) and possibly even the collectivisation of agricultural land (as occurred during the commie collapse of the Soviet Union in the 1930s).

So what ever you do, don't let others know what you are doing.


Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (08/11/11 03:58 PM)

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#229686 - 08/11/11 04:24 PM Re: AA+ is that it? [Re: Susan]
desolation Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 60
Loc: Sonoma County, CA
Originally Posted By: Susan


I have the funniest feeling that we aren't talking about 2008 here. Try 1930.

Sue


Or worse.

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#229693 - 08/11/11 06:32 PM Re: AA+ is that it? [Re: NuggetHoarder]
sheldon Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/28/11
Posts: 40
Originally Posted By: NuggetHoarder
Veritable - gold can easily be verified as genuine. Unlike paper currencies or even coins made with base metals, it is impossible to counterfeit gold coins. You might pass one off for a short time, but there are simple tests (weight, dimensions, specific gravity) that anyone can perform with the most rudimentary tools to confirm if your coin is genuine gold. (A ruler, a scale and a beaker of water in this case).

Is it basically because gold is one of the heaviest methods and most other things heavier than gold are actually more expensive, so cutting a gold coin with platinum wouldn't make sense?

Also, tungsten has specific gravity very close to gold. Isn't it possible then to cut a golden coin with tungsten?

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#229702 - 08/11/11 07:39 PM Re: AA+ is that it? [Re: sheldon]
NuggetHoarder Offline
Member

Registered: 07/01/11
Posts: 145
Loc: Appalachians
Originally Posted By: sheldon
[quote=NuggetHoarder]Also, tungsten has specific gravity very close to gold. Isn't it possible then to cut a golden coin with tungsten?


Yes, it's possible and there's a rumor that some large bars on the exchanges have been cut open and found to have a tungsten rod inside. There are some sophisticated steps beyond specific gravity that can test for tungsten cores without having to cut the bar in half... xray or gamma ray I'm not sure. It might be a sonic test - basically hitting the bar with a tuning fork and measuring the resultant ringing sound (similar to what you can do with silver). Those huge 50lb bars are out of my league so I don't pay much attention. I do know that there is a lot more scrutiny on this since the rumor surfaced last year.

As for gold coins having tungsten as a form of counterfeiting... it is not profitable for a counterfeiter to use tungsten. Tungsten's melt point is 6200F, three times hotter than gold, and requires a lot of energy to melt. Tungsten's hardness, way over 10 times harder than gold, requires much more energy to stamp the coin.

A counterfeiter won't make any money using tungsten at today's gold price. But, ramp up gold prices to $10,000 and I'm sure we'll see some attempts at counterfeiting. Just have to hope the marketplace responds with some enhanced verification tools.

As for platinum as a filler for gold coins. Historically, platinum has always been at par, or higher in price than gold so it makes no sense to use it as a filler. Only in the past few weeks have we seen gold surpass platinum in price. It will be interesting to see if this holds for any length of time.

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#229706 - 08/11/11 09:04 PM Re: AA+ is that it? [Re: NuggetHoarder]
Russ Online   content
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5169
Loc: SOCAL
IIRC, it's the 400 oz gold bars that have been found with Tungsten filler.
Chinese Discover 5600 Gold Bars, 400 oz., With Tungsten Core; Arrests

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#229711 - 08/11/11 10:03 PM Re: AA+ is that it? [Re: NuggetHoarder]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078

It will be interesting to see if Gold plated Depleted Uranium Platinum coins will soon show up especially now that gold is at a par with Platinum in terms of cost.

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