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#228644 - 07/27/11 02:32 PM Re: Norweigan island mass shooting lessons? [Re: bacpacjac]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5099
Loc: SOCAL
Originally Posted By: bacpacjac
From an excerpt I just read:

[i]. . . Geir Johnsen rang police but said he was met with a wall of incredulity.

"What happened is that I was absolutely not believed . . .

Lessons?

*Teach your kids to use 911 properly
*Try to work with the authorities. Insulting someone isn't going to help.
The primary lesson is that 9-1-1 operators need to take the information and act on it even if they don't believe it. When I heard the first report of an aircraft flying into the WTC on 9-11, I didn't believe it, but I turned on Fox News anyway and watched the replay. 9-11 operators are people and they have a right to disbelieve. But they do not have a right to use their judgment to disregard a citizen's report.

Telling a father that his "children had only to call the police themselves" is lame -- very lame. In CA, a cellular call to 9-1-1 is handled by CHP. Be prepared for a long wait while they get around to answering. Calling a third party who can call 9-1-1 on land-line is more efficient.

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#228646 - 07/27/11 03:13 PM Re: Norweigan island mass shooting lessons? [Re: bacpacjac]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Quote:
*Try to work with the authorities. Insulting someone isn't going to help.


Calling a female dispatcher an old B*tch will probably not get you very far as it will fire up the emotional part of the brain. Calling a male dispatcher an expletive probably would help somewhat to get your point across more effectively.

Again if this doesn't get you to far. Then a couple of questions to the dispatcher need to be asked;

'What is your name?'
'What is your Manager's name?'
'I need to speak to your manager, immediately'



Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (07/27/11 03:33 PM)

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#228656 - 07/27/11 04:37 PM Re: Norweigan island mass shooting lessons? [Re: dweste]
JohnN Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 966
Loc: Seattle, WA

Personally, I think the best defense is to instill children with a few basic tenants at an early age.

1) Bad things happen. Boats sink. Cars and planes crash. People try to kidnap kids.

2) In the end, you are solely responsible for your life and safety. Your parents, the firefighters, the police, the SAR will all try to help you, but in the end, it comes down to you.

3) Think. Problem-solve. Plan. Your mind is your strongest asset.

4) When your (and other's) safety is involved, anything many be considered.

5) Prepare/act. Do what you think is the best thing to do (including doing nothing).

6) Follow through -- leverage your advantage/success. Don't be the idiot in the movie that knocks the bad guy with the machete down and then runs away instead of keep hitting him with the rock till he doesn't get up.

7) Your parents love you and support you. They shouldn't be afraid of acting because they think they'll get in trouble.

Have what-if discussions. They don't even have to be survival oriented. Follow up with "why?". Talk about things you see in the movie and "what would you do differently" and "why?".

We can't tell them *what* to do. Every situation is different --

In the case of the shooting, if you happened to be behind the guy when he starts shooting, clubbing him over the head with a rock may be a viable option. But if you are 30 feet away and he is facing you, is most likely is a poor tactic.

But we can teach them to do their best to survive be it hiding or running or clubbing the attacker with a rock.

-john

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#228688 - 07/27/11 07:47 PM Re: Norweigan island mass shooting lessons? [Re: dweste]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
Latest news here indicates the kids ranged in age up to the mid-twenties, that many had cell phones and were using them to report and ask help, emergency dispatch for a time refused all calls except those related to the bombing, that the police boat that finally was used broke down on the one minute trip to the island, and the police had to rely on civilian assist to get to the island [civilians were already working to rescue children from the water].

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#229163 - 08/04/11 08:38 PM Re: Norweigan island mass shooting lessons? [Re: bigmbogo]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By: bigmbogo
Originally Posted By: Bingley

What punishment can we invent that would give us justice in a situation like this? I am horrified.

Da Bing


One of the early articles I read about the attack said that if he's convicted, he could receive about 25 years in jail, making him eligible for release before he's 50. So fantasize all you like, but the Norwegian justice system has it under control.


In Norway, really dangerous people can be sentenced by the court to be "contained". (Sorry, don't know the best translation). The purpose of containment is to protect the society from the worst criminals. There is no time limit to cointainment - the court will make you rot in jail for as long as it is deemed necessary.

The most likely outcome is that Breivik will be sentenced to 25 years and when those years are gone (minus a few years, 25 years sentence equals 17-19 real years or so) he will not be released - he will be contained for as long as he lives.

Face it, friends - there is absolutely no way a civilized society can punish a man so that the punishment is in proportion with Breivik's actions. But we feel pretty confident he won't be a free man again. Ever.

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#229639 - 08/10/11 09:33 PM Re: Norweigan island mass shooting lessons? [Re: MostlyHarmless]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2068
Loc: Colorado
Question: What is the best tool that can be used to stop a madman from killing others?

To survive: Do not live in, or visit, places that ban honest citizens from having and using this tool for their own defense. If you do go, then you are knowingly increasing your risk level, so don't complain if something bad happens.

In the case of groups of children, responsible adults should be supervising things, and responsible adults generally have ready access to tools they may need.

People with objections to tools can put their trust in others to take care of the situation, and their safest course of action is to run and hide while things are being handled.

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