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#229687 - 08/11/11 04:26 PM Re: Londoners take to streets to clean up [Re: ]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078

Quote:
John Wayne (He's frozen with Walt Disney, okay?)
Lee Marvin (Frozen Captain America style in a block of ice.)
Samuel L. Jackson
Sean Connery.
Ian McShane.
Michael Caine. (I've seen 'Harry Brown,' clearly.)
Clint Eastwood.


Nice list, but you've forgotten about Richard Todd.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrUs5AfrNjc

Interesting little fact is that Richard Todd was actually playing himself at Pegasus Bridge. wink

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#229689 - 08/11/11 04:33 PM Re: Londoners take to streets to clean up [Re: dweste]
unimogbert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 858
Loc: Colorado
Nah, you don't need that crowd.

Just send Chuck Norris.

After all, he's so tough the boogeyman checks underneath his bed to make sure Chuck Norris isn't hiding under there :-)

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#229690 - 08/11/11 04:52 PM Re: Londoners take to streets to clean up [Re: dweste]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
Don't send Chuck Norris. Just tell the rioters he might show up. That will be good enough.
_________________________
If you're reading this, it's too late.

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#229705 - 08/11/11 08:12 PM Re: Londoners take to streets to clean up [Re: ireckon]
Brangdon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1201
Loc: Nottingham, UK
Originally Posted By: ireckon
The UK is having these widespread riots because of the ingrained belief that using non-lethal force on violent criminals is always appropriate.
That's not true. Our police can and do use lethal force on criminals. It's just that when they do so, it needs to be justified. The trigger of these riots was bad PR following such an incident. (Which may have been justified; it's too early to say. There were early reports that one policeman had been shot, and would have died had the bullet not hit his radio. Forensic evidence showed that the bullet came from a police gun, and the criminal appears not to have fired a shot. Investigations are on-going. It doesn't help that the police have a history of cover-ups after such incidents, and the public don't automatically believe the police account.)

These riots got out of control largely because the police weren't prepared for them, because we've not had anything like it for a generation. It's probably a good thing that the rioters weren't armed with guns.

Quote:
Based on the home invasion cases I've read, the UK justice system fights back pretty hard against homeowners who have the audacity to protect themselves from home invaders, robbers, murderers and rapists.
Homeowners can legally use lethal force defensively in the UK. This has been tested in the courts time after time. What we can't do is chase a burglar down the street and then shoot him in the back.
_________________________
Quality is addictive.

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#229708 - 08/11/11 09:23 PM Re: Londoners take to streets to clean up [Re: Brangdon]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5237
Loc: SOCAL
Originally Posted By: Brangdon
. . .Homeowners can legally use lethal force defensively in the UK. This has been tested in the courts time after time. What we can't do is chase a burglar down the street and then shoot him in the back.
First you need a firearm, in your home, loaded or at least with ammunition readily available.

Wasn't there a farmer in Britain who went to prison for shooting a bad guy inside his home? As I recall that didn't go well.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#229710 - 08/11/11 09:34 PM Re: Londoners take to streets to clean up [Re: Brangdon]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Brangdon
Homeowners can legally use lethal force defensively in the UK. This has been tested in the courts time after time.


It's been a long time since I lived in the UK, but your media reports seem to indicate that this isn't always true:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...-homeowner.html

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/758751-hero-son-is-held-for-burglar-murder

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/articl...ice-system.html

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1319925/posts

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#229735 - 08/12/11 08:39 AM Re: Londoners take to streets to clean up [Re: dweste]
adam2 Offline
Addict

Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 442
Loc: Somerset UK
The law in the UK permits the use of "reasonable force" in defence of ones person or property.
In extreme cases reasonable force might be considered to include lethal force.

Unfortunatly, the police and the courts often seem to start from the presumption that any force is unreasonable. Especialy if a weapon such as a knife, bat,hammer, or even worse a firearm was used.
In law, a lot depends on the intent of the defender, which is not easily proved in court.
To grab a knife from ones kitchen if frightened by a burglar MIGHT be regarded as reasonable.
To sleep with a knife beside the bed, though not illegal in itself, might be regarded as a sign of intent to kill a thief.
The legal argument against a householder who injured a thief with a weapon kept to hand would be something like
"did you keep a knife beside your bed"
"yes sir"
"why did you keep a knife beside the bed"
"because I feared burglars sir"
"on hearing a sound, did you grab this weapon"
"yes sir, I did"
"so in fact, you planned and prepared to potentialy kill an intruder. This was not an impulsive act in the stress of the moment, but you planned it by keeping a lethal weapon ready for use, against anyone, without any care as to safety of the other party in this tragic incident, who was unarmed, not dangerous and merely wandered in through the door out of curiosity.
As a result of your planned murderous attack, a promising young student lies dead"
"but sir they forced the door and I feared for my safety"
"there is no evidence that they forced the door, the surviving one says they found it forced open by others and came in to check on you, to which you responded with lethal force"

There have been a number of cases in the UK in which householders and business owners have been imprisioned for what some would regards a self defence.
In other cases they have been aquited, but the odds dont look good.


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#229737 - 08/12/11 10:26 AM Re: Londoners take to streets to clean up [Re: dweste]
7point82 Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/24/05
Posts: 478
Loc: Oklahoma
I think that was pretty decent job of explaining things Adam. smile

The act of maintaining possession of the "weapon" is rather frequently being treated a de facto evidence that you committed a premeditated crime. In the UK there doesn't appear to be any way to be prepared in advance to defend yourself with lethal force without getting caught in this catch 22.

I will close with the disclaimer that I have not done a lot of research on the matter and would be very pleased (for those in the UK) if I am completely off base.
_________________________
"There is not a man of us who does not at times need a helping hand to be stretched out to him, and then shame upon him who will not stretch out the helping hand to his brother." -Theodore Roosevelt

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#229743 - 08/12/11 02:22 PM Re: Londoners take to streets to clean up [Re: adam2]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078

If only the looters and rioters had been given a good talking to, when they were 6 years old. whistle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tayLynbWqfM

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#229753 - 08/12/11 03:26 PM Re: Londoners take to streets to clean up [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
7point82 Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/24/05
Posts: 478
Loc: Oklahoma
Originally Posted By: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor

If only the looters and rioters had been given a good talking to, when they were 6 years old. whistle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tayLynbWqfM



Ok. I had to follow that link and that was awesome. grin

Thanks AFLM
_________________________
"There is not a man of us who does not at times need a helping hand to be stretched out to him, and then shame upon him who will not stretch out the helping hand to his brother." -Theodore Roosevelt

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