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#226522 - 06/23/11 10:12 PM Re: The Soto OD-1R Microregulator: Cold weather OK? [Re: Hikin_Jim]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078

Quote:
Clearly, the regulator valved burner can run at a lower pressure than a conventional burner.


That would depend on the BTU rating for the stove the Sotto is being compared against. The regulated valve on the Sotto appears to have a large diameter orifice designed into the valve to allow low pressure gas in the same way a higher BTU rated conventional stove has such as the Coleman F1 Power will have when the needle control is fully retracted. The Coleman is also a good cold weather stove (for this type of gas cartridge stove design) and will also have that 2-5F advantage over other less powerful stoves. You just have to be careful to turn the valve control down when your gas cannister suddenly gets 70F warmer in the matter of a few seconds. wink

The comparison stove being a Snowpeak Giga stove is rated for around 2.9kW i.e. it is lower rated than even the official Soto BTU rating. Essentially, I suspect that the Sotto is a basically a 7kW or even higher rated stove (valve design) which is output limited via valve regulation to 3.5kW output at the burner.

The Sotto stove does appear to be a well engineered product. My only concern is that these demonstrations and marketing videos could lead some folks to expect cold weather capabilities which really are not there in the design and could catch some folks out when they really need a hot meal and don't know the tricks to get the stove working again.

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#226530 - 06/24/11 12:25 AM Re: The Soto OD-1R Microregulator: Cold weather OK? [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Hikin_Jim Offline
Sheriff
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1804
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor
That would depend on the BTU rating for the stove the Sotto is being compared against.
If you start comparing stoves that are in different heat output classes, it's hard to tell if a regulator valve would have an advantage or not. To really tell if one valve type has an advantage over another, you want to compare roughly equal stoves.

A Snowpeak Gigapower GS-100 has an output of 10,000 BTU/hour.
A Soto Micro Regulator OD-1R has an output of 11,000 BTU/hour.
Not perfect, but still roughly in the same class.

An F1 according to Coleman's site puts out 16,400 BTU/hour, which really puts it in a different class.

The other "problem" with an F1 is that unlike most upright canister stoves, the F1 conducts heat back to the canister. It's going to be really difficult to separate out the impact of the thermal feedback, the higher output, and the valve type. If one were testing to see if there really were an advantage to a regulator valve, the F1 would be a poor choice for such a test. It would be interesting to know which was the better cold weather stove, but it would be nearly impossible to make any definite conclusions as to which was the better valve type.

Originally Posted By: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor
...Sotto appears to have a large diameter orifice designed into the valve to allow low pressure gas
If it were just a matter of a bigger orifice, then why bother with developing a regulator valve? And would a bigger orifice account for the behavior seen in the two videos where the OD-1R flame remains constant? It would not.

Still, it would be an interesting experiment to see if something as simple as a larger orifice would allow a conventional stove to work as well as a regulator valved stove. Unfortunately, the F1 wouldn't be a good choice for such an experiment since there are other factors involved (i.e. the thermal feedback of an F1).

Originally Posted By: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor
The Sotto stove does appear to be a well engineered product. My only concern is that these demonstrations and marketing videos could lead some folks to expect cold weather capabilities which really are not there in the design and could catch some folks out when they really need a hot meal and don't know the tricks to get the stove working again.
I share your concern which is one reason I emphasize that any cold weather advantage that the Soto OD-1R may have will be sligh, just a few degrees. The important things to focus on for cold weather gas stoves are:
a) fuel mix (avoid "plain" butane)
b) maintaining fuel warmth (not hot)
c) stove design (remote inverted canister vs. upright canister)
Valve design just isn't something one should focus on for a cold weather gas stove.

HJ
_________________________
Adventures In Stoving

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#226532 - 06/24/11 01:16 AM Re: The Soto OD-1R Microregulator: Cold weather OK? [Re: Hikin_Jim]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Quote:
An F1 according to Coleman's site puts out 16,400 BTU/hour, which really puts it in a different class.


The Coleman F1 is the little brother of the Coleman F1 Power

The Coleman F1 Power has a BTU of around 23,800 BTU or 7kW, as you can imagine this stove just eats fuel, but when used with an Etapower pot will boil a litre of water in around 1 min 45 seconds. grin

The downside is the efficiency, which from experience would be somewhat approaching a conventional stove such as the Snowpeak with a conventional pot in terms of litres boiled per cartridge, but this can be mitigated somewhat by turning down the output.

They actually are quite reasonably lightweight and very cost effective stoves, with the Coleman F1 currently being around 1/5 the purchase cost of the Soto in the UK.





Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (06/24/11 01:20 AM)

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