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#226031 - 06/16/11 02:12 PM Re: Possible scenario [Re: Chisel]
Pete Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1314
I think it's a judgment call. If the woman's situation is getting to the point where her life is in danger, then contacting the man is probably the smart option. It would be handy for her to have a small pistol or a knife in her possession.

But it's definitely not true that guys who are alone in the wilderness are all a bunch of rapists and violence-prone criminals. A lot of friendly guys might choose to be alone ... just because they want some peace of mind for a few days. Many would be glad to help in that situation.

Your scenario does point out some of the extra concerns that a woman has when she finds herself alone in the wilderness.

Pete #2

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#226049 - 06/16/11 06:01 PM Re: Possible scenario [Re: Chisel]
GettingThere Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/27/02
Posts: 35
This is a fascinating thread, and I am always interested in understanding women’s perspectives to the extent possible. I would agree with Jeanette-Isabel, in that the observer in the original scenario would be able to ascertain more information than is provided here. With all due respect to Chisel, let’s add some details and see how that influences the decision-making process…

You, as the woman in this scenario, come across the camper while he is chopping branches for firewood, using a small, adequate axe. His technique is not stellar, but is more proficient than clumsy. Based on your estimation, he is amassing enough wood for 24 hours. His particular appearance is average, neither attractive nor repulsive. He appears to be about 6’, 1”, about 200 lbs., mid to late 30s. The only detail of distinction is his short-cropped haircut. His clothes consist of Timberland boots, cargo jeans, flannel shirt over t-shirt. The clothing appears rather new but slightly ill-fitting (a bit too large for his frame). He is not wearing jewelry of any kind.

His campsite is haphazard, as there doesn’t appear to be any evidence of organization to it. As examples, there is no bear line, and the tent is too close to the stream. You can spot a large cooler, a full backpack, a large tent that is set up slightly lopsided, a rock fire bed with a dutch oven and stand over it, a medium-sized storage box (you cannot see the contents), and a video camera. There is also a handtruck, but no sign of a vehicle or tracks leading up to the campsite. There are no details that indicate how long he has been here.

Now that his chopping chores are complete, you watch the “woodsman” as he attempts to fish. His technique appears to be clumsy – his baiting is heavy-handed, and after finally catching something edible, his fish-cleaning abilities leave a lot to be desired. He has a tendency to mutter to himself, and occasionally snickers. He does not seem to be using any electronic entertainment devices, and the video camera remains unused.

While watching the man, you eat the last of your rations, leaving you with no food. A quick inventory reveals that you have your K-bar knife, fire-starting kit (although your quick-lighting tinder is gone), signal mirror, whistle, compass, paracord, a small tarp, sleeping pad, 3 changes of clothing, 2 small l.e.d. flashlights, canteen w/ fitted cup, water purifying tablets, snare wire, folding saw, general road map, and a medium first-aid kit, all within a backpack. At this point, you are fed, hydrated, and uninjured, but are aware of growing fatigue and anxiety from the uncertainty of the situation. You have a vague notion that civilization is at least a three-day walk away, assuming you take the right direction. You also know that the stream is flowing neither towards nor away from the direction you think you ought to walk, meaning that this might be the last source of water that you encounter. During your brief walk before encountering the camp, you have noticed signs of multiple canine-like paw prints throughout the area. The number of prints makes it impossible to tell whether a single animal has tracked here multiple times or if a pack is involved, but the size of the prints indicate a fairly-large specimen or group. You have not seen evidence of recent droppings or kills, nor can you tell how fresh the prints are. No human prints accompany those of the animal(s). The weather is mostly cooperating – cloudy with no signs of oncoming rain, but the temperatures are on the cool side and will be chilly overnight. You have about two hours of daylight left.

What will you do? What details are present or missing that influence the decision either way?


Edited by GettingThere (06/16/11 06:05 PM)
Edit Reason: Grammar

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#226068 - 06/16/11 09:51 PM Re: Possible scenario [Re: GettingThere]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1577
Loc: Ocala, FL
Based on what you and the original poster have said, this woman is clearly not me. I am detecting some negative signs, some neutral and some positive. However, one positive sign can easily be dismissed by other factors. Other things, like height and weight, do not play a role. The negatives are overruling the positives. The canine tracks do not appear to be a problem.

The woman made a crucial mistake by using up all of her tender. I would check the map to see if the creek goes to any civilization even if it takes longer.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"A grain of wheat must fall to the ground before it can do any good. New life springs from fallen grain." -- Fleda Claes Johansson

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#226158 - 06/18/11 03:53 AM Re: Possible scenario [Re: Chisel]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
If the woman is in the position of needing help, she's probably going to have to approach the guy, right or wrong. If she dies of exposure, starvation or thirst, or dies by his hand, she's still dead.

But even if the woman does have to approach him, it doesn't mean she has to stay there, and it doesn't mean she has to completely trust him. Be careful, keep your awareness turned on, keep your survival equipment on your person so if you suddenly have to leave, you can. Don't leave all your thinking and decision-making to him, you still (presumably) have a brain, so keep it working.

Sue

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#226159 - 06/18/11 08:51 AM Re: Possible scenario [Re: GettingThere]
Chisel Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/05/05
Posts: 1154
I am a city guy . so I won't be able to draw many conclusions from the description. However, even a wilderness-challenged guy like me would know that having a dutch oven means he didn't come alone with his gear in a backpack. He must have arrived in a car and someone has taken the car, or maybe has used the car to drop the gear for him.

So, someone else knows about the guy and the spot.

Clumsy fishing and camping skills ?
hmmmm
Looks very much like me. A city guy in need of a few days alone, and perhaps dropped there by wife or brother. Only thing is, is he as nice as I am ,LOL, or is he a psycopath ??

BTW, even "weird guys" are not necessary dangerous. Someone like me needs a few days of relaxation, and may frown at seeing someone in that quiet lonely spot ( Oh, no ! Not even here I can have some peaceful time). But I would definitely help her if needed. So, someone should not rush to draw the Ka-bar when the guy does not look cheerful.

Canine prints with no human prints maybe a pack of wolves ! Yikes. This tilts the decision towards sticking with the guy. However, it may have been a dog or dogs belonging to the guy(s) who drove away from the site. So, back to square one.

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#226164 - 06/18/11 03:38 PM Re: Possible scenario [Re: Chisel]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1577
Loc: Ocala, FL
I'm looking at the original post as if I am the woman. I can think of only three possibilities where leaving the car would even be an option:

The road is blocked.
I ran out of gas or have mechanical failure.
I'm on the highway and there is traffic jam so bad that everyone has to park their cars.

If the road is blocked, turn around. If I am in that traffic jam, now an impromptu community, stay in the car. If I am in the stalled car, what I do would depend on where I am. I'm not in a bad neighborhood. Otherwise, I would not be anywhere near that camper. If I am on a major road, with enough cars on it, I would await help. If I am on a deserted road, I may need to venture out depending on how much daylight I have left. If I did not pass any signs and there are no signs in the immediate area and if the surrounding area looks hospitable, I may venture out one mile.

I come across this camper. I probably do not see any indication he is able to help. He may have some useful information but it is probably not worth the risk. I head to my car with some knowledge about the local area which I could use. If there was a fork in the trail, I may try the other direction, still no further than a mile from my car. If there was not a fork in the trail, I would return to my car.

If I still have plenty of day light left, or if I did not venture into the local area, I would walk in the direction I was driving, looking for signs. If the map in my car covers the area I'm in, I bring it with me.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"A grain of wheat must fall to the ground before it can do any good. New life springs from fallen grain." -- Fleda Claes Johansson

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#226165 - 06/18/11 03:46 PM Re: Possible scenario [Re: Chisel]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1577
Loc: Ocala, FL
Originally Posted By: Chisel
Canine prints with no human prints maybe a pack of wolves ! Yikes. This tilts the decision towards sticking with the guy. However, it may have been a dog or dogs belonging to the guy(s) who drove away from the site.

Wolves in America would not present a problem unless they have rabies. A fear of humans has been ingrained in their breeding after centuries of dealing with them (us humans).

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"A grain of wheat must fall to the ground before it can do any good. New life springs from fallen grain." -- Fleda Claes Johansson

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#226176 - 06/19/11 03:32 AM Re: Possible scenario [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Richlacal Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/11/10
Posts: 778
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
A pack of Wolves is a VERY Real threat,Anywhere in the USA! Fear ingrained in their breeding?Where are you getting your info from?I can see it now,kinda' like the guy in the movie Jurassic Park,of whom crashed the jeep & is confronted by a pack of little dinosaurs,"Uh Uh, Nnnnice doggie! Here fetch!"

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#226178 - 06/19/11 09:56 AM Re: Possible scenario [Re: Chisel]
Byrd_Huntr Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 01/28/10
Posts: 1145
Loc: Land O' Lakes & Rivers - MN, U...
A quote from Wikipedia........."Retired wolf biologist Mark McNay compiled 80 events in Alaska and Canada where wolves closely approached or attacked people, finding 39 cases of aggression by apparently healthy wolves, and 29 cases of fearless behavior by non-aggressive wolves.[17]"

Here's more

http://www.aws.vcn.com/wolf_attacks_on_humans.html

_________________________
The man got the powr but the byrd got the wyng

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#226179 - 06/19/11 12:28 PM Re: Possible scenario [Re: Byrd_Huntr]
Teslinhiker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 1314
Originally Posted By: Byrd_Huntr
A quote from Wikipedia........."Retired wolf biologist Mark McNay compiled 80 events in Alaska and Canada where wolves closely approached or attacked people, finding 39 cases of aggression by apparently healthy wolves, and 29 cases of fearless behavior by non-aggressive wolves.[17]"


Mark McNay's report has to be interpreted with an abundance of caution as it is just a collection (not a study) of reported wolf encounters. Many of the wolf encounters in the report rely on witness's anecdotal recollections and as we know, this is not always accurate when it comes to reporting such things. Many times, people are their own cause of the encounter/attack due to their own ignorance. Like any wild animal, wolves can be conditioned to having people in their environment which usually results in the death of the animal because it is been too conditioned to humans.

In McNay's report, this is a prime example: (the wolf was shot later)

During the mid-1970s wolves commonly received food handouts from construction workers and truck drivers along the pipeline. Those practices contributed to habituation and food-conditioned approaches.
A construction worker had been feeding pieces of sausage to a wolf. As the man placed a piece of meat into his own mouth the wolf leaped toward the man's face, apparently in an attempt to obtain the food. The wolf's teeth closed around the man's nose and mouth, causing superficial abrasions.


In any case, the chances of most people even seeing a wolf in the wild are slim.

Furthermore the odds of being a "victim" of wolf predation anywhere and especially this outlined scenario are astronomically slim.
_________________________
Earth and sky, woods and fields, lakes and rivers, the mountain and the sea, are excellent schoolmasters, and teach some of us more than we can ever learn from books.

John Lubbock

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