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#225633 - 06/10/11 01:02 PM Re: Knife Rights Sues New York City [Re: Doug_Ritter]
JerryFountain Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 418
Loc: St. Petersburg, Florida
Tyber,

As you can see from 7point82's post the CCW is not removed by a "crowd", they are valid anywhere but those specific exceptions. And as always a private property owner can limit them. Interestingly, most places that post, only post a no firearms sign, not a no weapons sign. But then they probably don't know what the law says either.

Izzy,

As you said, the same problem does exist here as in New York, a vague law and officers overstepping their authority. There is no definition of an "ordinary pocket knife" in Florida law. There is also no authority to have a "no knife zone" with limited exception, and on private property.

Doug,

Thanks for your efforts, It is time to get off my duff and join, thank you also for making it possible.

Respectfully,

Jerry

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#225642 - 06/10/11 02:46 PM Re: Knife Rights Sues New York City [Re: Doug_Ritter]
Cockroach Offline
Stranger

Registered: 09/18/10
Posts: 13
Good job Doug, hope the lawsuit processes expediently and you get it turned around.

I work in NYC and travel the 5 boroughs to all my facilities I carry a small 3" Spyderco folder plus a 1.25" swiss utilty on my keys wherever I go.

I been stopped at several government buildings where the securty guards identified these as "deadly weapons" (yes even the 1" swiss utility crazy. At least I was able to check 'em and enter the buildings to take care of business.

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#225645 - 06/10/11 03:09 PM Re: Knife Rights Sues New York City [Re: JerryFountain]
Mark_F Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 714
Loc: Kentucky
Jerry poses and interesting point. What is "an ordinary pocket knife?"

Years ago (and perhaps to some extent today) it brought to mind a knife something like a case stockman or similar type/sized knife.

Nowadays, a one hand opener often comes to mind.

Is ordinary dependant on geography? Could it be dependant on ones job? I am chained to an office chair every day, so I carry an SAK. My friend (and DS's Cubmaster) works outdoors with heavy equipment and such and carries a large one hand opener. Many people who work around electronics carry Multi-tools.

Point is, ordinary is very much a relative thing. But relative to what else?
_________________________
Uh ... does anyone have a match?

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#225651 - 06/10/11 03:27 PM Re: Knife Rights Sues New York City [Re: Doug_Ritter]
jzmtl Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/18/10
Posts: 530
Loc: Montreal Canada
There's a reason they made such laws not so precise to begin with, to give cops some wiggle room to let go average joe who's just going about his day, and nab the gangbanger wannabes.

Of course always leave it to the politicians and lawyers to screws it up.

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#225655 - 06/10/11 03:42 PM Re: Knife Rights Sues New York City [Re: jzmtl]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1628
Loc: Northern California
[new post below]
_________________________
If you're reading this, it's too late.

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#225657 - 06/10/11 03:49 PM Re: Knife Rights Sues New York City [Re: ireckon]
jzmtl Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/18/10
Posts: 530
Loc: Montreal Canada
Originally Posted By: ireckon
Originally Posted By: jzmtl
There's a reason they made such laws not so precise to begin with, to give cops some wiggle room to let go average joe who's just going about his day, and nab the gangbanger wannabes.


...and that statement is even more problematic then the law.

In Florida, someone who looks like a "gangbanger wannabe" could easily be sitting on the board of an major, international entertainment company.


I guess if you can't differentiate between someone who "looks like", and someone who "is", you have bigger problem to deal with.

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#225658 - 06/10/11 03:50 PM Re: Knife Rights Sues New York City [Re: Doug_Ritter]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1628
Loc: Northern California
Originally Posted By: jzmtl
There's a reason they made such laws not so precise to begin with, to give cops some wiggle room to let go average joe who's just going about his day, and nab the gangbanger wannabes.


...and that statement is even more problematic then the law. Everybody is OK with Draconian laws as long as they don't apply to them, but that comes back to haunt.

As Exhibit "A", I give you "may issue" gun permits in California. These laws were originally passed by lawmakers who wanted to give sheriffs some wiggle room to allow permits for average Joe but deny permits for gangbanger wannabes. Today, it turns out the "may issue" law basically means nobody gets a gun permit in California, not even wealthy white people in Orange County. Now, they're crying foul.
_________________________
If you're reading this, it's too late.

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#225659 - 06/10/11 03:55 PM Re: Knife Rights Sues New York City [Re: Doug_Ritter]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1628
Loc: Northern California
Anyway, how many gangbangers do you think are opting not to carry because of this law?
_________________________
If you're reading this, it's too late.

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#225660 - 06/10/11 03:56 PM Re: Knife Rights Sues New York City [Re: ireckon]
jzmtl Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/18/10
Posts: 530
Loc: Montreal Canada
Originally Posted By: ireckon
Originally Posted By: jzmtl
There's a reason they made such laws not so precise to begin with, to give cops some wiggle room to let go average joe who's just going about his day, and nab the gangbanger wannabes.


...and that statement is even more problematic then the law. Everybody is OK with Draconian laws as long as they don't apply to them, but that comes back to haunt.

As Exhibit "A", I give you "may issue" gun permits in California. These laws were originally passed by lawmakers who wanted to give sheriffs some wiggle room to allow permits for average Joe but deny permits for gangbanger wannabes. Today, it turns out the "may issue" law basically means nobody gets a permit in California, not even wealthy white people in Orange County. Now, they're crying foul.


That's a ridiculous argument. First it's not draconian, it didn't say no one can do it. Even you admit it's created with good intention. If used as intended it would be effective. Then you conveniently cut off the 2nd part of my post, which clearly state these law are open to abuse, and have been abused beyond their original intention.

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#225661 - 06/10/11 04:01 PM Re: Knife Rights Sues New York City [Re: ireckon]
jzmtl Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/18/10
Posts: 530
Loc: Montreal Canada
Originally Posted By: ireckon
Anyway, how many gangbangers do you think are opting not to carry because of this law?


That's not the point now is it. Like I said, if used as intended, a 100% clear law would either require cops to arrest guy with a knife to eat lunch and open letters with, or let go known gangbangers who'll probably use it on someone else. Whereas a little vagueness would allow the former to be let go and latter to be arrested.

Of course that's what would happen ideally, and we don't live in an ideal world.

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