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#222235 - 04/25/11 12:13 AM Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage?
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1577
My cell phone company's coverage is fine in cities and on major roads, but it's rather poor in out-of-the-way places (tiny towns, on country roads, state parks, etc.). What would be a good back up emergency plan for a road trip? How can I communicate in an emergency?

I've thought about getting a pre-paid phone from a company with a better coverage for road trips and such. (Wal Mart and other big box stores seem to sell these for a reasonable price.) I assume these phones will have the same coverage as the regular phones from the same company. That would be useful if I have to call for roadside service, 911, etc.

Satellite phones seem quite expensive. Likewise, a personal locator beacon seems a bit of an overkill for a well-visited state park. (Maybe I'll grow adventurous, but for now I can't see myself going beyond the comfortable touristy routes.)

Do you see potential problems with using pre-paid phones with better coverage? Are there better ideas out there?

Thanks!


Da Bing

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#222237 - 04/25/11 12:27 AM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: Bingley]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Coverage maps are available for the various networks that indicate where reception is or is not available. Consumers Reports has accurate information as well on this topic, as well.

Where specifically do you plan to go? I am not sure which state parks you will be visiting, but many of those I know are often not tremendously isolated, and they are typically rather well developed, to the extent that land lines are typically available. They usually feature friendly cooperative staffs who will come to your aid.

I have used Verizon with great satisfaction for about seven or eight years. I have been able to get out, even from places where reception should not have been available. My understanding is that Verizon has the most comprehensive network to date.

I go well back into the pre-cell phone era, when you jolly well could not communicate at will if things got tight. You just had to deal with the problem. That is still the best strategy.
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#222239 - 04/25/11 12:30 AM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: Bingley]
Famdoc Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 155
Loc: PA
If your provider is AT&T, and if your have an iPhone, which usually uses their relatively snappy 3G network (with the even faster 4G coming sometime), then your can turn off the 3G and talk over much larger areas of the USA on their older and slower but much more wider coverage area EDGE network.

Go to Settings>General>Network>Enable3G and turn that to off. In a few seconds you will see the "3G" in the upper left hand corner of the screen be replaced by a bold leter "E" (for EDGE)

I've used this switch back to the older network once so far when the phone said I otherwise had no service. Also texting will sometimes get through even when voice won't.

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#222243 - 04/25/11 12:45 AM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: Bingley]
Squatch Offline
Stranger

Registered: 09/17/10
Posts: 1
Loc: Virginia
I would consider a Ham Radio license. Repeaters are set-up across the country for VHF/UHF coverage. Just a thought www.arrl.org.

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#222244 - 04/25/11 12:55 AM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: Squatch]
kd7fqd Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 359
Loc: Saratoga Springs,Utah,USA
I second, get a ham license the coverage from 2 meter repeaters across the country is fantastic. We have a repeater system in Utah called "Cactus" goes from West Texas to Montana, (it's in the shape of a Saguaro Cactus)
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#222246 - 04/25/11 01:18 AM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: Squatch]
rescueguru Offline
Wanderer
Member

Registered: 09/02/06
Posts: 119
Loc: Southeastern USA
I have carried two cellular devices for several years because of problems like the aforementioned. One on the "V" network and another on a network that features a push to talk type service. Both have advantages and disadvantages noted as I have traveled across the southeastern US and beyond. I am a licensed amateur (ham) as well and the largest problems noted isn't the availability of the repeaters, but the availability of people listening. As an example, I attempt to make contact with the local hams on local repeaters as I travel to new or even familiar areas, often times to no avail. The repeaters are up and listening, but no one else seems to be. However, I will continue this because I realize that when stuff happens, Ham radio may be all thats left. Been there, seen that. Additionally, learning the necessary skills and technical information to pass the test makes one aware of the proximity of amateur frequencies to public safety bands that are monitored continually. In a life or death situation, "ya do what ya gotta do". Bottom line is that there is no one "best fix" for everyone, and no system is perfect.
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#222247 - 04/25/11 01:26 AM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: Bingley]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3601
Loc: Ontario, Canada
This question has been on my mind a lot over the past year, Bingley. I gave up my blackberry about a year ago and have been cel phoneless ever since. It does make me uneasy sometimes.

In and near urban centres, it's only been an issue of convenience. There's almost always someone around who can help.

I haven't soloed in a wilderness setting during this time, and have always had another adult with me who's always had a cel. Sometimes, though, we haven't had coverage. We take our Scouts on an annual week long portaging trip, and cel phone service is spotty at best. We're taking a SPOT with us this year, mostly in case of a medical emergency.

My back-up plan has been intinery planning and filing. Where are you going? What's your route? What stops are you planning? When will you be back? Make as detailed a plan as possible and give copies to several people, including a copy of your map. Then stick to your plan. That way, if you're late, someone can call in the calvary and they'll know where to look. Same goes for your daily commute, check-in before you embark and be predictable.


Edited by bacpacjac (04/25/11 11:27 AM)
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#222248 - 04/25/11 01:31 AM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: Bingley]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3823
Loc: USA
There's nothing wrong with carrying a prepaid phone on a different carrier for improved possibility of getting a call through. Like anything else, it's a cost/benefit analysis that I can't help you make unless I know where you're going and what the coverage is supposed to be like there.

Calls to 911 calls may go through when your phone reads "no signal" if a competing carrier is available -- in the US the law requires all carriers to accept 911 calls even if a phone isn't activated. On the minus side, different carriers now use different incompatible technologies, so "no signal" really can mean that you're out of luck.

Texting often will get through when voice doesn't. This has worked for me countless times. In an emergency it's certainly worth trying.

I carry an iPhone. They're supposed to fall back to EDGE service when 3G isn't available, something I've used successfully many times. Since 3G and EDGE are the data services, neither is supposed to have an effect on voice availability.

There were two times, before I carried a cellphone, that I tried to use a Ham radio HT to communicate in an emergency. Neither time was I successful. That's not to say that it doesn't work when repeaters are available and people are listening, but when you consider the time, effort, and money required to get a Ham license and an HT, I'd sooner recommend a PLB.

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#222251 - 04/25/11 07:39 AM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: Bingley]
quick_joey_small Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 574
Loc: UK
>Likewise, a personal locator beacon seems a bit of an overkill for >a well-visited state park. (Maybe I'll grow adventurous, but for >now I can't see myself going beyond the comfortable touristy >routes.)

Just one wrong turning and you are very soon somewhere that will kill you on a cold night. Don't assume it's safe because it's in a park. In 'Deep Survival' (can't recommend it enough) the author explains how him and his girlfriend went for a 'half hour walk' from their hotel. Hours later it was getting dark, they had nothing but their cotton clothes and a 3 day ice storm was settling in....
(by they way he mentions the answer to the question on another thread about 'is it better to be undressed?': get out of wet cotton! mountain rescue call it 'death cloth')

At least carry a whistle and flares.
I just bought a phone at Carphone Warehouse (in England) for £12.95p. That included £10 of credit. It was already unlocked, so I could throw in another companies chip. AND had a torch and radio buit in! I call it 'my smart phone' because getting a phone for £2.95 is smart. :-)
Paying hundreds a month so you can show off your photos is: well good luck for you if you have that much money to spend on trifles.
qjs

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#222262 - 04/25/11 01:43 PM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: Bingley]
comms Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1502
Loc: Mesa, AZ
Well, my iPhone sucks on coverage. I workout in a state park a few times a week and I know exactly where my coverage works and won't. It takes me between 1-2 miles longer coming out of there. I have been to the tops of mountains and into the Grand Canyon with friends with other networks and they have voice and text ability and AT&T won't. I have to use their phones.

I have tried the 'send text with no service' thing to see if it would send through anyway on a weak signal and it has never worked. Tried maybe 50x. On the iPhone the text will display w/ a red dot with exclamation point indicating that it did not go through. I have to resend it once i get coverage.

I carry a SPOT2 with custom message or set up codes for what each OK Message means; for example if I am going to the park to swim and then ride my bike, the first OK my wife gets means I am no longer swimming. Second OK means I am done riding and heading home. Then she knows I always call her once I am back into range.
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#222268 - 04/25/11 02:38 PM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: comms]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
I have used my Verizon phone in situations where satellite phones were not functioning. AT&T is generally regarded as the network with the poorest coverage.

I guess I am a satisfied customer. Usual disclaimers....
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#222270 - 04/25/11 02:53 PM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: hikermor]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3823
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: hikermor
AT&T is generally regarded as the network with the poorest coverage.


That may be true where you live, but Death Star Wireless works better than Verizon almost everywhere I go, where I live.

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#222273 - 04/25/11 04:24 PM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: Bingley]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
Pre-paid service (like TracFone) work just fine for some areas and not at all in others. Their phones are cheap ($25+) and cards available everywhere. Where I live, I can't get TracFone coverage at all, any time, but my sister lives three miles away and has no problem. But it has been reported that since TracFone doesn't own any towers, they buy time on all the other towers, so you may be able to get through via them even if your own doesn't work because your company wants use only through their towers.

If there is no access to tower coverage, nothing will work. I think someone said 30 miles max as the crow flies. And I suspect that hills, etc, may interfere even if closer.

Texting can work great, but not at this point with 911. They were discussing implementing it last November, but don't bet your life on it yet.

Sue

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#222293 - 04/25/11 09:47 PM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: Bingley]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
Don't overlook that your selection of cell phone can have a profound effect on your service area. A whole lot of small phones have essentially the same electrical components and capabilities but there are exceptions. Many carriers have tech support that will clue you into any phones they carry that have significantly greater operational range.

A friend of mine that work a lot in remote rural areas keeps his old 'handbag/brick' cell phone from the 90s around because it has significantly more transmit power and includes an easy to use antenna connection. He keep a variety of antennas on hand. A rubber pigtail that is rugged and good enough for in town, a 18" unit for semi-rural areas, and a 6' whip that allows for service in the sticks.

The tech department of the service provider will know what phones have better sensitivity and an antenna connection. They will also sell you a suitable antenna. Usually you can get the same units cheaper online.

There are also behavioral aspects. Gaining altitude, top of a hill or building, up a tree, or standing on top of you car can help. Avoiding ground clutter, buildings, trees, hills also helps.

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#222326 - 04/26/11 02:15 PM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: Bingley]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2995
Phone quality varies greatly too, the "free" phones you get won't get as good as reception as a higher end model. I've tended to go higher end to get the better coverage, my last two phones have had much better reception than the cheapies I used to get.
You can also look at external antennas, most phones will have a small cover that can be removed to get to an antenna jack.

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#222327 - 04/26/11 02:32 PM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: Bingley]
LesSnyder Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 1680
Loc: New Port Richey, Fla
I've asked twice before, and got no feedback, so will try again for the "charm"... does anyone have any experience with the Gulo Gulo hiking stick gain antenna for a cell phone?

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#222332 - 04/26/11 03:29 PM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: hikermor]
ChicagoCraig Offline
Member

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 113
Originally Posted By: hikermor
I have used my Verizon phone in situations where satellite phones were not functioning. AT&T is generally regarded as the network with the poorest coverage.

I guess I am a satisfied customer. Usual disclaimers....


Which sat network? Globalstar, Iridium, Bgan, Terastar?

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#222336 - 04/26/11 04:50 PM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: ChicagoCraig]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
I am afraid that I don't know the answer to that question. However, I understand that one of the satellite networks was rather unreliable (Iridium?). I suppose that network issues might have been the problem. We were on the Channel Islands and had unimpeded access to the sky and, evidently, one of Verizon's towers.

Verizon was marginal in that you had to stand in one spot, make a wish, spin around three times, and....access!


Edited by hikermor (04/26/11 04:50 PM)
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#222337 - 04/26/11 05:00 PM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: LesSnyder]
kd7fqd Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/07/05
Posts: 359
Loc: Saratoga Springs,Utah,USA
I went to the website for the Gulo Gulo walking stick and for $99 is a bit too steep to experiment with
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#222343 - 04/26/11 06:26 PM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: Bingley]
LesSnyder Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 1680
Loc: New Port Richey, Fla
kd7fqd...I've been known to cut a di pole antenna to a desired freq range....don't have access to a VTVM or oscilloscope to measure small induced voltages any more

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#222344 - 04/26/11 07:09 PM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: Bingley]
Roarmeister Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 09/12/01
Posts: 960
Loc: Saskatchewan, Canada
Yep, a competitor's pp phone is a good idea but so is carrying/buying a phone card or carrying coins for regular old pay phones. During an emergency, the cell system is more likely to be overloaded rather than just being out of range. When I vacationed in Yellowstone last year I was out of cell-phone range for the majority of the trip. "Ahhh, peace and quiet! I loved it."

Or of course you could learn semaphore and smoke signals! laugh

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#222347 - 04/26/11 07:50 PM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: Roarmeister]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3823
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Roarmeister
Yep, a competitor's pp phone is a good idea but so is carrying/buying a phone card or carrying coins for regular old pay phones.


I don't see a lot of payphones out there any more.

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#222351 - 04/26/11 09:40 PM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: Bingley]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3760
Loc: TX
For what it's worth, my $10 Tracfone (http://www.tracfone.com/) gets the best reception out in the wild of any phone I've seen, plus I don't have to worry about damaging an expensive object.

-Blast
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#222374 - 04/27/11 03:24 AM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: Bingley]
Aussie Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 205
Loc: Australia
A cheap pre-paid is a good backup especially if you are travelling to an area where you won’t have coverage with your regular phone. Consider getting some kind of waterproof cover too and think about charging options (eg car charger etc).
Be sure and leave the number with the folk at home so that in a non-emergency you can call them (and have them call you back) so you don’t run out of credit; or you can have them make an emergency call on your behalf …

I have heard of people just caring a handset with no sim (or an expired sim) and relying on the requirement of all telcos to accept an emergency call (You should check in your part of the world if this is true). I’m not sure that I’d be comfortable with that especially when you consider the “low” price of a pre-paid!

Probably most of our emergencies are really inconveniences, so being able to make a call to a non-emergency contact (a ranger or family at home) would be a good idea. So I’d get a pre-paid.

Regarding a SPOT, these are great for (remote) tracking your progress or for a real emergency, however they are one-way communication. If you do set one off it can still be hours (or days – esp in bad weather) before help can reach you. If you did have phone coverage, you can get information about how long before rescue reaches you, and you can receive instructions about what to do.

I can speak from experience with Iridium based sat phones in Australia, getting a signal can take some time. Sometimes there is no problem at all. On occasions I’ve failed to get a signal, tried an hour or two later and managed to get signal (because a satellite have come over the horizon). Once you get a signal you try not to move the phone, complete your business and hang up ! I’m not sure that the other sat companies (or handsets) are necessarily any better (at least in my part of the world). Sat phones tend to be expensive too !

Any satellite communication (SPOT or phone) will be hampered by steep terrain, so if you’re in a canyon or deep valley you may not be able to get a signal out – but I guess that goes for a regular cell phone too !


Edited by Aussie (04/27/11 03:24 AM)

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#222383 - 04/27/11 07:32 AM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: Aussie]
comms Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1502
Loc: Mesa, AZ
[quote=Aussie

Regarding a SPOT, these are great for (remote) tracking your progress or for a real emergency, however they are one-way communication. If you do set one off it can still be hours (or days – esp in bad weather) before help can reach you. If you did have phone coverage, you can get information about how long before rescue reaches you, and you can receive instructions about what to do.

Any satellite communication (SPOT or phone) will be hampered by steep terrain, so if you’re in a canyon or deep valley you may not be able to get a signal out – but I guess that goes for a regular cell phone too !
[/quote]

I don't like being a Sharpshooter Aussie but your statements above about SPOT2 are incorrect or a straw mans argument.

SPOT2 is fully capable of working in deep canyons. HERE is one of many pages you can Google to refute that line of thinking.

While SPOT2 is a one way communicator, it is a communicator with in a worst case environment 90%+ success rate for communication when there is no cell phone coverage. It is a straw mans argument to state it will take days for rescue when the fact is without communication, specifically cell phone coverage, there would be no notice of SOS for rescue.

Standard Disclaimer for myself, but regardless if a person uses GlobalStar/SPOT or other PLB unit, it works when there is no cell phone coverage over 80% of the globe.
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#222387 - 04/27/11 11:28 AM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: comms]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
You have a lot of faith in a company that has experienced recent recalls of two of its products.

I have deep roots in the pre-electronics era,when Sir Galahad was not just around the corner, ready to ride to rescue at a moments notice. The emphasis then (if you were at all prepared) was on extricating your party from the fix they were in, and secondarily on contacting an outside agency for assistance.

I think that is still a pretty good protocol, because there is still a inevitable lag before rescuers can deal with your situation, and that time can be critical.

I chuckle when I think of receiving instructions over a cell phone: "See that box of matches? Reach inside and extract one of the sticks with the red blob on the end. Hold the stick firmly between the thumb and forefinger, red blob outward. Now forcefully move the red blob against the side of the matchbox where the scratchy stuff is... You do have some fire tinder, right?....."
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#222396 - 04/27/11 03:10 PM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: Bingley]
KenK Offline
"Be Prepared"
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 2209
Loc: NE Wisconsin
I've had a PLB for a number of years - long enough for the battery life to become questionable. It has provided a lot of comfort to my family while out and about.

With the new upcoming tiny ACR model coming out for around $250, they've hit a price point where - at least for me - there is much less hesitance to make the purchase ... and it matches the cost of installing a new battery on my current older ACR model.

I'd just go with the PLB and not have to pay any ongoing service costs over the years, wonder whether you'll get reception when hell breaks loose, wonder if the phone will survive whatever happened, and KNOW that help will be able to find you even if you are truley lost ... or too injured to reliably give information. Its a pretty awesome technology.

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#222398 - 04/27/11 04:20 PM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: Bingley]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Does anyone know the current status of the old TDMA/AMPS network in the US? AT&T had the single biggest chunk of that technology but the last time I have read anything about this topic a number of years ago, it sounded like they were agressively shutting those parts of it network down as quickly as it could while it built out its GSM capability. Haven't read about that in a long time. This is something that mostly affects those rural and out-of-the-way areas, but that's the OP's concern.

Are there even any analog pre-paid phones anymore? Tracphone used to be one, but haven't they switched to all CDMA handsets now?

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#222400 - 04/27/11 04:24 PM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: Arney]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3823
Loc: USA
AMPS is dead in the US. D-AMPS (sometimes known as TDMA) is also dead. Phones based on those technologies will not work.

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#222438 - 04/28/11 03:21 AM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: Bingley]
Aussie Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 205
Loc: Australia
There are some good points here. I've only used a SPOT "original" (and Iridium sat phones) in my part of the world, and I'm Not saying it will "never work in canyons", but I have experienced limited coverage. I agree that virtually any satellite device will have far greater coverage that any phone network.

The claims in the article do make the SPOT2 seem quite a bit better than the original, and I’m impressed by the claimed 90% “delivery” for deep canyons in the Americas.

SPOT themselves claim: “in everyday conditions it is normal for some messages to be blocked by your environment, such as hills or buildings….. scheduled to automatically send multiple messages… [giving] overall reliability” I take it this means that it will keep retrying until it can actually send the message, so if you are in a canyon or similar the messages may not be sent until you reach a suitable piece of sky or a satellite positions itself above you, and then the messages can get out ?

I’m sure that (eventually) 90% plus of messages are “delivered”, but not necessarily 90% delivered “real time” ? This just means that your SOS message may not get set instantly.
If you did 5 days of canyoning (as per the article) I guess people would go in and out of the narrows of the canyon and perhaps its then that their SPOT messages were sent (90%). But if you were stationary with a causality in the narrows of the canyon I wonder if the message would get out ? Of course no other device would work there either !

But I’m not really wanting to discuss canyoning – it is a fairly specific circumstance.

For general outdoor, open sky use SPOT or sat phone – no problem.
In more confined, deep valleys, I have seen issues with original SPOT and do need to resend – it looks like SPOT2 automatically resends, so this is a real plus; and I have also had problems getting signal with my sat phone.

As Comms says the overall SPOT and PLB coverage is fantastic– I urge everyone to buy a SPOT or PLB or similar device and don’t leave home without it. (And don’t forget spare batteries/useby dates)

And I’m not saying “don’t get a SPOT or PLB”, just pointing out that EVERY technology does have some limitations even if most people may never encounter them.

That’s it !

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#222440 - 04/28/11 03:32 AM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: Bingley]
Aussie Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 205
Loc: Australia
My point on “days for rescue” was that ONCE you have alerted authorities (regardless of how that was done) it can still take time for them to get to you especially when you are remote, not that authorities would magically start looking for you (unless you had an intentions form or person); and I wanted to make the point that if you did have two way communications, then authorities can tell you how long they think it will take and they know what to prepare.

I don’t want to take away from a SPOT or PLB’s benefit, it is simply an extra tick for phone (if you have coverage) or sat phone use. Sat phones can be very expensive to buy and run compared to a PLB, so that’s a negative for sat phones.

For example, if I set off the SPOT in the middle of the nowhere, the authorities have no way of knowing whether I have a critical vehicle breakdown or a snake bite to deal with, so they follow their protocols. If I make a sat phone call and talk to them, then they can decide to send a mechanic rather than a doctor.

My apologies here, but I do feel a bit defensive about the benefits of two way communications because I’ve been in a situation in the remote Kimberleys where a member of the party became sick in the late afternoon. It was 4 or 5 days drive to the nearest town with a doctor. I had an EPIRB (a few years back) and the sat phone. If I had I set off the EPIRB, authorities would have probably contacted the local Ranger, who would probably have taken a few hours to reach us that evening, or more likely would have come in the morning. He may have used his sat phone or RFDS radio (VHF) to arrange an evacuation, which would take more time - perhaps later that day or the following day …. That’s a long time for the casualty and a lot of stress for the rest of the party; and if I’d only had one way communications it would have been a very anxious wait never knowing when someone would arrive or what was happening. Many people have un-realistic expectations about how long it might take to be rescued which is compounded in a high stress situation.

As it turned out I used my sat phone and spoke to an RFDS doctor immediately who was able to give reassurances and advise me to administer some high dose antibiotics. Fortunately the matter was dealt with straight away (I have a remote area first aid kit, and of course a Ranger would have access to one too). When we did eventually reach “civilization” we called in for a check up and made a hefty donation to the RFDS.

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#222470 - 04/29/11 12:00 AM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: Bingley]
comms Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1502
Loc: Mesa, AZ
Why be defensive about thinking two sat communication is better than no cell coverage or punching a one way PLB. Of course two way conversation is best. But in my opinion between a person buying a PLB and sat Phone, PLB is taking market share in that department.
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#222506 - 04/29/11 06:17 PM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: Bingley]
Brangdon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1204
Loc: Nottingham, UK
Be aware that text messages often get through when a voice call won't. They make best use of whatever coverage is available.

Instead of carrying two phones, if your phone is unlocked you should just need a second SIM.
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#222538 - 04/30/11 03:52 AM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: Bingley]
comms Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1502
Loc: Mesa, AZ
I am seriously not trying to be contincious here, but can can anyone speak to actually sending a text message in a no service cell area and it getting through. To me this is a urban myth. I am on AT&T and have tried this over 50 times in the last year and it has never worked. Several of these attempts have been while my friends with Sprint & Verizon in the car or onThe trail w/ me have service so I know signal is there for someone but not AT&T.
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#222543 - 04/30/11 06:37 AM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: hikermor]
ChicagoCraig Offline
Member

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 113
Originally Posted By: hikermor
I am afraid that I don't know the answer to that question. However, I understand that one of the satellite networks was rather unreliable (Iridium?). I suppose that network issues might have been the problem. We were on the Channel Islands and had unimpeded access to the sky and, evidently, one of Verizon's towers.

Verizon was marginal in that you had to stand in one spot, make a wish, spin around three times, and....access!


Interesting. I've never had a problem with Iridium. From what I know Globalstar had reliability issues in the past and am not sure if they still do as they are starting to launch new satellites.

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#222548 - 04/30/11 12:52 PM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: comms]
Aussie Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 205
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: comms
I am seriously not trying to be contincious here, but can can anyone speak to actually sending a text message in a no service cell area and it getting through. To me this is a urban myth. I am on AT&T and have tried this over 50 times in the last year and it has never worked. Several of these attempts have been while my friends with Sprint & Verizon in the car or onThe trail w/ me have service so I know signal is there for someone but not AT&T.


Hi Comms, you cannot send an SMS on someone else's network. I think there may be some confusion about emergency calls to 911 (in the US). If "any" carrier has network coverage (that is compatible with your phone), then you can make a 911 call ONLY.

The point about SMSs is that it only takes a "millisecond" to transmit, so if your network is congested, or your coverage is marginal, then the SMS may get through where a voice conversation (which lasts much longer) may have difficulty staying established. This is particularly true when we had analogue networks, but can still occur now.

I make the point is saying "compatible with your phone" because there are a few different phone technologies about. In my part of the world we have 3G and GSM. Generally older handsets are GSM only and newer ones are both, but occasionally one is 3G only, so if you gave a GSM only handset and there is 3G coverage, it isn’t going to work !

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#222549 - 04/30/11 12:59 PM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: Bingley]
comms Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1502
Loc: Mesa, AZ
Thanks Aussie, that makes sense.
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#222551 - 04/30/11 01:34 PM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: comms]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: comms
...can can anyone speak to actually sending a text message in a no service cell area and it getting through.

I think people often mix up the situations of "no service" with "can't get through" when repeating this often used mantra about SMS. If your handset is not getting any signal at all, then obviously, even SMS won't work. It's possible that you may get brief, intermittent reception, in which case, you might have some success. Recall that in the James Kim family tragedy, their phone did briefly hit some cell towers intermittently.

In contrast, I have gotten SMS to go through in a couple cases where I couldn't make a voice call due to network congestion. SMS started in places like Europe, which use GSM. GSM has a separate radio channel for actual calls versus another channel for administrative tasks, like sending a signal to your phone that you have a voicemail message waiting. SMS utilizes that second channel, so even if all the voice channels are overloaded with users, SMS usually gets through on that second channel.

I don't believe other protocols, like CDMA, CDMA2000, etc., operate the same way regarding sending SMS on a separate channel, although they may have other reasons for being fairly reliable when sending SMS on a congested network. If anyone knows how other protocols handle SMS, I'd be interested to know.

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#222703 - 05/02/11 02:40 PM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: Bingley]
atoz Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 144
Loc: Nevada
Why not do what we did for years and just be self reliant. I know were are in the age of instant commnication, but to many people abuse the system.
cheers

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#222752 - 05/02/11 10:45 PM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: atoz]
Aussie Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 205
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: atoz
Why not do what we did for years and just be self reliant. I know were are in the age of instant commnication, but to many people abuse the system.
cheers


I suspect that everyone who reads this post is as self reliant as possible. Unfortunately there are some things which just can't be dealt with by yourself, depending on your circumstances and skills.

Having said that, for people starting out and learning, I think it would be nice to think that they have a safety net if their plans go wrong.

Having a safety net is part of good planning.

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#222765 - 05/03/11 12:48 AM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: Bingley]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3601
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Another cel phone network might help but it would be just as wise to find other non-cel phone solutions for back-up. My experience with temporary gps disruptions on two different cel phone networks really brought that point home for me this weekend. Don't count on it because it can fail.
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#223035 - 05/06/11 05:19 AM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: rescueguru]
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1577
Originally Posted By: rescueguru
I have carried two cellular devices for several years because of problems like the aforementioned. One on the "V" network and another on a network that features a push to talk type service. Both have advantages and disadvantages noted as I have traveled across the southeastern US and beyond. I am a licensed amateur (ham) as well and the largest problems noted isn't the availability of the repeaters, but the availability of people listening. As an example, I attempt to make contact with the local hams on local repeaters as I travel to new or even familiar areas, often times to no avail. The repeaters are up and listening, but no one else seems to be.


I am seriously considering getting a ham license. It seems to be a good idea in case of emergencies, not just on the road. If a tornado comes through my neighborhood and knocks out cell towers and internet, ham will help me stay connected to the outside. So on the road, how would one ask for help through ham? If you can find someone listening, you ask him/her to call the cops/towing service for you?

From looking at various ham websites, I gather that you can have a portable handset (i.e., do not need a whole bunch of machine plus antenna in order to talk). Is this correct? I'll have to get started studying for the exam.

What worries me most is what Rescueguru said about the lack of people listening in. That kind of defeats the purpose.

Prepaid phones are not cost-effective, as I discovered. I don't travel all that much. Spending $15 or $30 per month just to keep an account active doesn't make sense. Maybe I need to invest in a good smoke signal kit... *sigh*


Da Bing

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#223050 - 05/06/11 12:37 PM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: Bingley]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3823
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Bingley

I am seriously considering getting a ham license. It seems to be a good idea in case of emergencies, not just on the road. If a tornado comes through my neighborhood and knocks out cell towers and internet, ham will help me stay connected to the outside. So on the road, how would one ask for help through ham? If you can find someone listening, you ask him/her to call the cops/towing service for you?

From looking at various ham websites, I gather that you can have a portable handset (i.e., do not need a whole bunch of machine plus antenna in order to talk). Is this correct? I'll have to get started studying for the exam.


I'm a licensed ham.

Short-range handheld radios are available and popular. Before cellphones, hams developed the concept of the repeater. It's basically a radio with a big antenna that hears what you're saying on one frequency and retransmits it in realtime on another, greatly increasing the range that two (or more) people can talk.

Hams who operate repeaters understand their utility during natural disasters, and many repeaters have backup generators. Hams also frequently use mobile repeaters when operating in the field.

On the road, you would consult your handy-dandy list of repeaters in the area, tune in to one, and ask for assistance. If someone is listening you'll get a response. There are also simplex (direct, non-repeater) frequencies that folks monitor.

I consider a ham HT to be a poor second to a cellphone for almost everywhere I go. I'd buy a PLB before getting a ham license and buying an HT for emergency communications.

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#223287 - 05/10/11 02:23 AM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: chaosmagnet]
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1577
OK, looks like ham radio is not a good solution. At least it would provide some food in emergency (ha ha).

I started looking into two possibilities:

1. Cell signal booster. This works better for car travel, since it requires antenna installation, etc. However, lacking electronics knowledge, I am unable to translate manufacturer specs into something I understand. The gain is measured in decibels. Is a gain of 40 db enough to cover me on most road travel? Does anyone know this?

2. Tracfone (Blast's recommendation) seems cheaper than other prepaid phones. If you buy 400 minutes for $100, you don't need to pay any more fees to keep the phone active for a year. Tracfone uses CDMA and GSM, but you don't get to choose. Your location determines the variety. Their GSM carrier seems to be AT&T, the the CDMA carrier Verizon. So current AT&T customers might not see much of an improvement. Tracfone phones are not terribly fancy, so they might not be able to pull in weak signal.


Da Bing

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#223319 - 05/10/11 02:11 PM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: Bingley]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3823
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Bingley
1. Cell signal booster. This works better for car travel, since it requires antenna installation, etc. However, lacking electronics knowledge, I am unable to translate manufacturer specs into something I understand. The gain is measured in decibels. Is a gain of 40 db enough to cover me on most road travel? Does anyone know this?


Decibels are a logarithmic scale. In the radio world, 40db gain is huge. Keep in mind that power increase does not scale in a linear fashion with range where terrain is a factor.

The rule is that one dollar of antenna is worth ten dollars worth of amplifier. There are cell signal boosters that have a little antenna on the inside of a car, with a larger antenna on the outside. These tend to work well if they're designed for the cellular technology that your phone uses (CDMA, GSM, etc).

Quote:
2. Tracfone (Blast's recommendation) seems cheaper than other prepaid phones. If you buy 400 minutes for $100, you don't need to pay any more fees to keep the phone active for a year.


What's the cost difference between a Tracfone and a PLB?

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#223321 - 05/10/11 02:13 PM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: Bingley]
Pete Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1372
Alternate solution .. buy yourself a SPOT device that is used for emergency signals. Although intended primarily for emergencies, the SPOT also works for other purposes. You can use it in different ways.

The SPOT has several buttons on it. You can use the "SOS" for really serious situations, and if you subscribe to "roadside assistance" then there is also a separate button that you can use to summon help specifically for breakdowns.

In addition, the SPOT has an "OK" button that you use to send a message that you are indeed OK. And it also has a "Custom" button. Both the "OK" and the "Custom" buttons allow you to send a pre-programmed message by satellite that will get routed as text messages to peoples' cell phones. Furthermore, you can go online to the SPOT service (www.findmespot.com) and change these pre-programmed messages whenever you like.

I have found by using this system that it is very convenient, and you can be smart in how you tailor the messages on SPOT to suit your own individual needs. The important thing to know is that you can use it to transmit a variety of messages, and they come through as text to peoples' cell phones.

Pete #2


Edited by Pete (05/10/11 02:14 PM)

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#223327 - 05/10/11 03:43 PM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: Bingley]
comms Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1502
Loc: Mesa, AZ
Pete,

After much debate on what PLB to purchase a few years ago, I went with the SPOT2. People of course comment on it not being a 'real' PLB or because it's run by a private company that's inherently evil and full of error.

I like my SPOT2, my DW loves me using the SPOT2.

I do a lot of training in no phone service territory. I carry the SPOT2 and establish a series of communication based on the OK message I send to DW. For example, if I am running and swimming, the first OK is that I am done running. The 2nd is that I am done swimming and heading back to grid and will call as soon as I can.

For some of my longer run or riding days, I set the TRACK feature and leave the Share page up so that DW and son can follow my progress in real time.

So, +1 on SPOT2
_________________________
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#223337 - 05/10/11 05:40 PM Re: Back up plan for poor cell phone coverage? [Re: comms]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
I was doing a short volunteer project on San Miguel Island (Channel Islands National Park) a while back. Only the ranger and I were on the island, and he was called away unexpectedly. Before he left, he showed, and demonstrated for me, the island's SPOT.

Frequently on that island, and others as well in the park, one could be the only person on the island. Even with a radio, SPOT makes sense. I carried the gadget, even tough I was rarely out of sight of the ranger station.

I am put off by the need for a subscription service, and it yet another electronic widget to cart around, but, hey, it is officially endorsed by a federal agency. It is cheaper than losing rangers.
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