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#220943 - 04/05/11 11:18 PM Re: Fukushima Nuke Plant Explosion [Re: Alex]
Arney Offline

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
At least they seem to have stopped the leak of radioactive water. However, they will still need to dump some more into the ocean in the meantime to make room to store even more highly reactive water.


#221032 - 04/06/11 10:54 PM Re: UC Berkeley is monitoring air and rain daily [Re: MartinFocazio]
philip Offline

Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 639
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
As the earlier fission bombs weren't particularly efficient then I think you can safely assume that the highest proportion of Plutonium fallout found on the Japanese mainland would be from the Nagasaki detonation using a Plutonium weapon.

Which isn't anybody's position, as far as I can tell. As you said in your earlier quote:
Concentrations reported for both, plutonium-238 and plutonium-239/240 are similar to those deposited in Japan as a result of the testing of nuclear weapons. The ratio of the concentrations of plutonium-238 and plutonium-239/240 in two of the samples indicate that very small amounts of plutonium might have been released during the Fukushima accident, but this requires to be further clarified.

Nobody's talking about the two bombs dropped on Japanese cities.

Of course the idea that the levels of Plutonium contamination of the Fukushima site by the IAEA could not be distinguished between the level of Plutonium fallout from the use of above ground testing from the 1940s to 1960s and from the fuel from a smoldering No3 reactor using 7% Plutonium Oxide MOX fuel which had ejected the top of the inner pressure vessel containment, which surrounds the inner fuel core, 1500 feet into the air to land on the nearby turbine hall to then have vast qualities of Plutonium contaminated hot particles rain down, is the b*lls*it statement.

Your use of negatives is confusing me on what you're saying. Levels of plutonium contamination _can_ be distinguished among above ground testing, the releases from Chernobyl, and the releases from Fukushima. All have distinguishing characteristics. This is pointed out on pages 242, et seq., and pages 255, et seq.

I also recommend watching the video at
where the lecturer talks about distinguishing features between the Fukushima releases and those from Chernobyl.

It is my understanding that it is, indeed, possible to distinguish among various isotopes to tell which came from atmospheric tests and which from burning nuclear reactors.

#221116 - 04/08/11 01:18 AM Re: UC Berkeley is monitoring air and rain daily [Re: philip]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Perhaps a summary of the events at Fukushima is best summed up here;


I find this very concerning as well;


Looks like a criticality event (the bluish ball of light on the horizon) has been recorded at the beginning of the above video. I hope I am very wrong on this one.


Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (04/08/11 01:47 AM)

#221118 - 04/08/11 01:55 AM Re: UC Berkeley is monitoring air and rain daily [Re: MartinFocazio]
philip Offline

Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 639
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
As to Mr. Gundersen's video, I'm unimpressed with his credentials and with his comments. I'll defer to the presenters at UC Santa Barbara who appear to have no axe to grind. Mr. G definitely has concerns, but he states no basis for his concerns. People are concerned. C'est la vie.

As for any criticality accident, I'm happy to say that time will prove whether it happened or not.

#221335 - 04/11/11 04:27 PM Re: Fukushima Nuke Plant Explosion [Re: MartinFocazio]
Arney Offline

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
No details that I've seen, but I'm seeing the first reports from Japan's Kyodo news service that they are considering raising the classification of the nuclear crisis to the highest category. Wow, that is a serious admission.

They're also going to expand the evacuation zone and also start preventing people from going back and forth into the evacuation zone to their homes. They are finally sending recovery teams into the evacuation zone to search for bodies.

And, the same areas hit with 7.1, 6.0, and 5.6 aftershocks within 10 minutes. Some casualties. A triple whammy like that would certainly fray my nerves.

It's hard to know what to make of the nuclear crisis even a month later. I feel exactly the same way about the current economy, i.e. things seem calm and maybe even hopeful at times, but I feel a personal sense of dread that things could slide into even worse territory in short order. In both cases, the underlying problems and weaknesses have not been adequately addressed yet.

#221382 - 04/11/11 10:26 PM Re: Fukushima Nuke Plant Explosion [Re: Arney]
Pete Offline

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1360
Fukushima now officially raised to a Level-7. Rumors floating around that some of this radiation is making it into US food sources (e.g. milk in Hawaii).

This is the time where I'd like to see a lot more radiation data getting published for the USA. Of course, a lot of people in America probably feel the same way - so let's see if we get any responses.

Pete #2

#221395 - 04/11/11 11:13 PM Re: Fukushima Nuke Plant Explosion [Re: Arney]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
No details that I've seen, but I'm seeing the first reports from Japan's Kyodo news service that they are considering raising the classification of the nuclear crisis to the highest category. Wow, that is a serious admission.

Its been a level 7 event since the first No1 reactor exploded. The operators Tepco who stated that the explosion was caused by a release of hydrogen, of course they never really went on to explain where all that hydrogen came from.


The rest of the nuclear industry experts also failed to inform the public where the hydrogen came from.

#221435 - 04/12/11 03:23 PM Re: Fukushima Nuke Plant Explosion [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Alex Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 1034
Loc: -
Russian nuclear experts are strong believers in Japan government cover up: http://www.utro.ru/articles/2011/04/12/968525.shtml The article is in Russian, so - some excerpts translated and thoughts from me:

- The "low activity waste dumping to the ocean" is just a test ball, trying the world's tolerance. The high activity waste dumping will be following soon.

- The Chernobyl meltdown was over and out in 24 hours. The Fukushima is still burning. There are 10 times more of fuel to burn there compared to Chernobyl and 50 times more of the old radioactive waste. So, when it's over, the Chernobyl desolation zone might be considered a clean place in comparison to Fukushima's.

Many are arguing about the weak effect from the atomic bombardment of Hiroshima/Nagasaki here - have in mind that there were just 6 kilos of "fuel" burnt (at least 1 kilogram of which disintegrated completely), at Fukushima plant they have over 10,000,000 kilograms...

#221462 - 04/13/11 01:23 AM Re: Fukushima Nuke Plant Explosion [Re: MartinFocazio]
philip Offline

Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 639
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
I've mentioned before that UC Berkeley is doing daily monitoring of air, rain, and some foods, and they're updating their site daily, too:


So far, levels detected in spinach show that you'd get the same levels of radiation as on a roundtrip flight coast to coast - _if_ you eat 800 pounds of spinach. As of yesterday, Berkeley is showing no increases in radiation levels in the US.

Fukushima has indeed been raised to level 7, but this is based on getting more accurate records from earlier in the month. At that time, the reactor was releasing 10,000 terabecquerels of Iodine-131. Level 7 is defined as being the release of "tens of thousands of terabecquerels." Although Chernobyl was classed as a level 7, also, Chernobyl released about 10 times as much radiation as Fukushima. They're both level 7 because that's the definition of level 7. It's like saying because the White Sox are a major league time, they're in the same league as the Yankees. :-> Technically true.

We all have access to information freely available on the Web to read these numbers and to know what they mean. Relying on TV news for knowledge and understanding of what's going on at Fukushima is, in my very humble opinion, a mistake.

In addition to UC Berkeley, we have access to MIT's page on Fukushima:
which has links to their blog and other articles on Fukushima and radiation dangers in general;

Canada's Occupational Health and Safety:
which has information on ionizing radiation in general and how it's measured;

Harvard's Medical School's page on understanding radiation in light of Fukushima:
which compares releases there with more common experiences such as chest X-rays and mammograms;

and an excellent presentation from UC Santa Barbara's Department of Physics:
which talks about radiation in general and ties it specifically to Fukushima. The video and slides explain what happened at Fukushima and why this wasn't another Chernobyl, no matter what the level number.

Two of the keys to survival are preparation and knowledge. We have access to incredibly rich resources which we can use to learn about what's going on and then to know whether there is danger, knowledge based on our own new-gained expertise. People who panic are less likely to perform well under stress. I recommend that we learn about the danger, judge the extent of the danger, then decide what preparation we need to take.

So far, Japanese police report over 13,000 confirmed deaths and over 14,000 people still missing. This report:
estimates the death toll will exceed 27,000, as a result of the earthquake and the tsunami. As far as I can tell, no deaths are related to Fukushima's releases of radiation. But we fear radiation. We can lessen our fear of radiation by learning.

#221466 - 04/13/11 02:32 AM Re: Fukushima Nuke Plant Explosion [Re: philip]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6740
Loc: southern Cal
One of the things I love about this thread is the rapid increase in my vocabulary. Is a terabecquerel any thing like a pterodactyl?

Seriously, thanks for the good links. I learned that a medical procedure I experienced late last year gave me a good fraction of the annual limit for nuclear plant personnel. We live in a complex world......
Geezer in Chief

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