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#218726 - 03/11/11 12:44 AM Re: Fill your gas tanks, folks. [Re: Blast]
Richlacal Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/11/10
Posts: 778
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Regular-$3.85 per gal.Today at Costco in Marina del rey!

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#218727 - 03/11/11 12:47 AM Re: Fill your gas tanks, folks. [Re: Blast]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
I tried to fill up but only had $50; gas at $3.7999.

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#219169 - 03/15/11 01:37 AM Re: Fill your gas tanks, folks. [Re: comms]
Roarmeister Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 09/12/01
Posts: 848
Loc: Saskatchewan, Canada
Hey, American friends. I know you think your gas is expensive but in reality, compared to the rest of the world - its CHEAP! I pay about a $1 more per gallon north of the border and in Europe it much much higher. Part of this is the psychology of seeing a commodity rise so quickly and not the actual affect that it has on ones pocketbook. Even so, I am sharing a picture with a bit of humour to it... my sister passed it on to me. It's from a gas station near a native reserve outside Hazelton, BC.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/60607054@N03/5527681789/


Edited by Roarmeister (03/15/11 01:38 AM)

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#219172 - 03/15/11 02:15 AM Re: Fill your gas tanks, folks. [Re: Roarmeister]
LED Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 1474
True, but the economy here is vitally dependent on access to cheap fuel. Everything from the way homes are built, the layout of cities and suburbs, to job availability is directly related to the cost of fuel. In other words, out entire way of life as we know it for the last 60+ years. Don't forget most of us drive cars/trucks that get less than 20MPG and there's no rail system to speak of. Sustained $5 a gallon gas would have drastic and unpredictable results here IMO. Oh, and for those hoping massive spending on infrastructure and rail projects would save our economy, did I mention we're 15+ trillion in debt with a jumpy bond market? Can we transition? Sure, but it ain't gonna be pretty.

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#219183 - 03/15/11 03:05 AM Re: Fill your gas tanks, folks. [Re: LED]
Richlacal Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/11/10
Posts: 778
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
We are the Larger Customer in terms of Quantity,We should get our fuel Cheaper,We buy more of it,Than Anyone else!

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#219197 - 03/15/11 04:57 AM Re: Fill your gas tanks, folks. [Re: Richlacal]
Paul810 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 1428
Loc: NJ, USA
One thing to keep in mind is that, in the U.S., the average tax on a gallon of gasoline is less than 50 cents.

Whereas, in the U.K. for example, the duty rate on fuel is 2.20 per U.S. gallon. Then there is also a Value Added Tax of 20%.

Basically, someone from the U.K. pays more in taxes alone than people from the U.S. pay for their entire gallon of fuel (including our taxes).



Now, if neither of us had fuel taxes, our cost for a gallon of gasoline would be a lot closer. IIRC, the U.K. would only pay around 30 cents more per gallon on average. Not too bad, considering they've only got ~25 million cars on the road to our ~250 million.

-----------------------

It's also worth mentioning that, the best selling vehicle in the U.S. is the Ford F-150. A vehicle that struggles to get 20mpg on the highway. Whereas, in Europe, the most popular vehicle is the VW Golf, a little hatchback that easily gets 20mpg in city driving for the least efficient gas engined trim (whereas diesel versions are seeing 30+mpg city). Plus, unlike Europe, throughout much of the U.S. a public transportation system is virtually non-existent.

Basically, as a country, we really aren't in the best of shape to deal with rising fuel prices. Making things even more difficult is our increasingly strict emissions and safety standards that prevent us from getting a lot of the (more fuel efficient) vehicles that are available elsewhere in the world.

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#219199 - 03/15/11 05:01 AM Re: Fill your gas tanks, folks. [Re: Richlacal]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Richlacal
We are the Larger Customer in terms of Quantity,We should get our fuel Cheaper,We buy more of it,Than Anyone else!

Actually, the best way to get cheaper oil (among other benefits) is force everyone to use your currency to buy it. Having the military might to enforce that system doesn't hurt either. Winning! (My God, I just did a Charlie Sheen--just shoot me now...)

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#219208 - 03/15/11 07:02 AM Re: Fill your gas tanks, folks. [Re: Paul810]
Roarmeister Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 09/12/01
Posts: 848
Loc: Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: Paul810

1. Basically, as a country, we really aren't in the best of shape to deal with rising fuel prices.
2. ..Making things even more difficult is our increasingly strict emissions and safety standards
3. ..that prevent us from getting a lot of the (more fuel efficient) vehicles that are available elsewhere in the world.


1. Now there is a valid argument. To you it is a higher % increase than it would be for other countries; ie. a 40% increase in the raw product means close to a similar increase in the pump price whereas in Europe the % increase may only be 10%. Add in the stressed American economic state and the race to devalue the currency means a big impact on the personal finances. LED's argument that the economy in the US is vitally dependent on access to cheap fuel. That is a good point, one I hadn't considered. Whereas other countries have had some time to adapt their economies to the high gas taxes the same can't be said if the US has a 40-100% increase in a relatively short period.

2. California and New York are more strict emissions/safety than other states but not necessarily more strict than other jurisdictions in the world.

3. I would argue that the US actually DOES have access to more fuel efficient vehicles; the big difference is in the choice not to buy and use smaller efficient vehicles. Consider the difference between the US and Canada which are much more comparable than the US vs Europe. With access to the same exact vehicles, Canadians purchase smaller vehicles because a) gas is a bit more expensive but not drastically different, b) greater concern with environmental concerns, c) drive greater distances per person than any other country even more so than the US because we have an even less efficient public transit system. It is about making choices.

Nonetheless, I hope you guys realize that people in other countries ENVY the cheap price you pay at the pump. smile

I'm going to drop this topic for now as there may be a tendency to slide into politics instead of keeping this a purely economic argument and I'd rather not go there.

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#219211 - 03/15/11 08:46 AM Re: Fill your gas tanks, folks. [Re: Roarmeister]
Paul810 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 1428
Loc: NJ, USA
Originally Posted By: Roarmeister


3. I would argue that the US actually DOES have access to more fuel efficient vehicles; the big difference is in the choice not to buy and use smaller efficient vehicles. Consider the difference between the US and Canada which are much more comparable than the US vs Europe. With access to the same exact vehicles, Canadians purchase smaller vehicles because a) gas is a bit more expensive but not drastically different, b) greater concern with environmental concerns, c) drive greater distances per person than any other country even more so than the US because we have an even less efficient public transit system. It is about making choices.


It kind of goes on a case by case basis, but overall we are severely lacking when it comes to certain vehicle classes and options.

One good example of this is the 70 Series Land Cruiser. Everywhere else in the world got/gets this vehicle (including Canada), and they were legendary in their capability. The U.S.? Nope, never got it. It didn't pass our safety and emissions regulations. Instead, if I want a vehicle with similar capability, I would be stuck buying a 3/4 ton pickup. Not exactly the best when it comes to fuel economy.

We're starting to get better, but certain things just boggle my mind. I mean, we finally get a good compact work van again in the global Ford Transit Connect (which is selling pretty well here). But instead of getting the 30mpg+ diesel/5-spd version that Europe gets, we get a version with a 2.0L gas engine/4-spd that gets 23mpg combined....worse fuel economy than the 4-cyl Ranger that they haven't updated in 13 years. (and are now dropping out of the compact truck market completely). They say it doesn't make sense to bring over the diesel version because the engine doesn't meet our emissions regulations. Getting it to meet the regulations would require adding a lot of extra equipment; which would add to the cost, increase the weight, and the decrease the fuel economy...making it not worth it financially.

Not for nothing, but the best selling delivery vehicle for years and years has been full size vans with V8 engines. I can buy them all day long with large displacement naturally aspirated gas engines, but when I want to buy a small van with a 35mpg 1.8L diesel it's too bad for the environment to be imported....seriously? crazy




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