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#21800 - 11/25/03 10:08 PM Re: Air rifles

Thanks for the info. I've been thinking about getting an airgun for a while now. My ideal one would probably be an air pistol with an optical site and a folding stock, purely because it would be small and lightweight. It would also ideally be under 100 <img src="images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />, like that going to happen.

#21801 - 11/25/03 10:59 PM Re: Lewis and Clark

Lewis and Clark carried an Isaiah Lukens Air Rifle which they reportedly could kill deer with at 50 yds. Didn't ahve to worry about wet powder.
Just my 2

#21802 - 11/26/03 02:34 PM Re: Air rifles


Again, thanks for the insights. I'm well acquainted with both those websites.

>>I wouldn't say that 825fps is low powered, plenty good for most air rifle tasks.<<

Actually, it's pretty high-powered... for a springer in .22. The 825 is just nominal, with "real" pellets the model seems to chrony about 750 fps.

I rarely shoot it indoors, because even with the steel traps that can handle it (most air gun traps can't), the lead pellets actaully splatter, and fragments easily come back the 30 feet or so. That seems to happen with steel targets and anything that does more than about 550 fps- I have a CZ-631 with a Maccari tune kit that probably puts out .177s at 575 fps or so, and shooting metal targets (hanging "spoons" and such) I've been stung by fragments many times, and can often hear them hitting the wall behind me.. you don't want to forget shooting glasses.

The RWS 94 does work with the "ballistic putty" (duct seal) trap, or with a thick bundle of newspapers, though that makes a mess eventually. As I said, the trigger needs attention, but the piece never fails to bring a smile to the shooter- it's just sweet. Very nice for an inexpensive air rifle (or very inexpensive for a nice air rifle).

>>You obviously love air rifles<<

Like most of my interests, it comes in waves and cycles over time. I also shoot flintlocks, and sometimes pieces.. well, we computer nerds say "any noun can be verbed", and that also applies to "grandfather". :-) Still, although I've enjoyed shooting for decades, airguns have given me MORE shooting to enjoy than anything else.

>>if price is an object<<

Generally not, at least in the range of a few grand here and there.. though it was an object, come to think of it, the last time I bought an air rifle. That's one of the reasons (there were others) that I ended up with the RWS 94 instead of an R9. I seem to recall that a good hand pump for PCP was about $750?

I will consider what you've told me when "new toy" time comes in that area of interest again. :-) Thanks.

#21803 - 11/26/03 04:32 PM Re: Air rifles
bountyhunter Offline

Registered: 11/14/03
Posts: 1224
Loc: Milwaukee, WI USA

Back when I was very active in the shooting sports, there used to be a bullet trap designed for home use in .22 long rifle caliper. This trap had an extreme angle in its backplate that led to a curved portion at the lower end of the trap. The idea was that the bullet was deflected downward, entered the curved cusp and spent its remaining energy quickly and safely by looping in the curved portion. Sounds to me like you could use a trap designed for powder burning .22's.

Of course this all assumes you don't live in <deleted by Admin> England or Austrailia.


Edited by Doug_Ritter (11/28/03 01:31 PM)

#21804 - 11/26/03 05:10 PM Re: Air rifles


Thanks- I've seen the "Outers" style .22 trap used quite a bit with airguns, but haven't sprung for one yet. Noise is a problem with them, I hear.

The ductseal/putty trap works very well, and it's perfectly silent, so I couldn't ask for more... when punching paper.

The problem is when I let loose at a metal TARGET (built into a metal trap). One has hanging "spoon" targets (quarter and dime-sized circles) and another has mini-silhouette steel targets. If I left those alone with the more powerful air rifles, there'd be no problem at all- but "reactive" targets are temptingly fun to shoot at.

In one winter I actually destroyed one of the "spoon" targets. The target faces were becoming noticably "peened" by the pellets (they had a hand-hammered look), and eventually metal fatigue started breaking them off the stems. That was with a low-powered CZ-631, not a hunting airgun. It's just a little "hot" for indoor use... I also worry about vaporized lead, though I'm firing from a finished part of the basement to an unfinished area.

The traps don't have any trouble handling the real "target" airguns, which seem to cluster around 450 fps, and with those the pellets just deform. Somewhere above 550 fps, they seem to start to completely liquify from the impact on a hard target- the main part of the pellet looks like a "splash", and fragments look like droplets.

Where I am (mid-Atlantic seaboard in the "land of the free, and the home of the brave") isn't as bad as England or Australia yet, but they sure seem determined to get there- the issue of who gets elected seems to affect only the pace, not the direction. We've been talking about a change of venue.

#21805 - 11/27/03 01:18 AM Re: Air rifles *DELETED*
bountyhunter Offline

Registered: 11/14/03
Posts: 1224
Loc: Milwaukee, WI USA
Post deleted by Doug_Ritter

#21806 - 11/27/03 02:30 PM Re: Air rifles *DELETED*

Post deleted by Doug_Ritter

#21807 - 11/27/03 04:51 PM Re: Air rifles *DELETED*
bountyhunter Offline

Registered: 11/14/03
Posts: 1224
Loc: Milwaukee, WI USA
Post deleted by Doug_Ritter

#21808 - 11/27/03 05:11 PM Re: Air rifles

I had several things to say but deleted them all.

Have a very happy thanksgiving

Edited by WEB (11/27/03 05:18 PM)

#21809 - 11/28/03 10:55 AM Re: Air rifles
frenchy Offline

Registered: 12/18/02
Posts: 1320
Loc: France
Hello, Chris !

I'm a target pistol shooter, mainly .177 air pistol (accuracy, 10m). I own a now old Feinwerkbau model 100 pistol. (no air, nor CO2 cartridge, but a cocking lever, which precompresses air inside a chamber ; something likethis one ).

I have no experience with the kind of air rifles you talk about.
So, the links you provided were interesting reading material.

As far as I can see,most of those air rifles are either breakbarrel or need a scuba tank or hand pump to fill an air cartridge.
- breakbarrel : I suppose it means you "fold" the front part of the barrel to compress a spring. As I have only seen, a long time ago, this system on cheap, inaccurate rifles, I guess now this system has been enhanced. But does it stay sturdy as the rifle ages ? Or does it become somewhat loose ... ??
- air cartridge, filled with scuba tank or hand pump : I know this system is now used, to replace the CO2 cartridge system, for competition pistols and rifles.
But I don't like its complexity. And it's forbidden to transport such a weapon, with the air cylinder charged.
- I would prefer something along the lines of the RWS model 48 (side cocking lever). But then you have only one shot ! Not easy to follow rapidly with a second one, if needed...

After reading your post, I tried a google search, for french web sites on air rifles, but did not find anything on the subject.

I guess air rifles, except for 10m target shooting, are not easily available in France.
And I guess I would need a possession permit to get one (depends on the rifle power ; mandatory above 10 "joules" which is .. I don't know, I will have to do some calculations ... <img src="images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> ).


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