Equipped To Survive Equipped To Survive® Presents
The Survival Forum
Where do you want to go on ETS?

Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#217851 - 02/23/11 03:42 AM One Cup At A Time: Two New Canteen Cup Goodies.
cliff Offline
Sultan of Spiffy
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/12/01
Posts: 271
Loc: Louisiana
UPDATED 24 FEB 2011

Leon Alberti, a famous Renaissance artist and architect, defined beauty as that point where nothing can be taken away or added except for the worse. Some would say – this writer included – that when it comes to outdoors kit the humble US Army Canteen Cup comes pretty close to meeting Alberti’s definition. It is simplicity itself, but with so many uses. You can drink from it, eat from it, boil water in it, cook in it, bake in it, dig with it. When I was in the field with the Guard, I used one of mine (I carried 2-3) as my shaving/washing bowl, and once even used one to help drain the oil from the engine of an M577. (Yes, I washed it after.)

Besides being a multi-tasker, the US Army Canteen Cup is bloody bombproof. There is good reason it has changed little in 101 years.

In the US, the Army Canteen and Cup are almost iconic when it comes to a personal water carrier for Scouting, hiking, hunting or camping. Plastic Nalgene-type bottles are changing that, but the canteen/cup that hydrated our military for a century is still a first choice for many, be it for a day hike, a camping trip, or bug-out-bag. Plus, they are cheap. Even the real ones.

Yes, I know; other militaries make cups for their canteens. But most of these come in two, less Alberti-esque, categories: Plastic – nice for drinking but useful for little else; and, Tinfoil – thin aluminum that will bend in half if you stare at it hard enough. The old East German canteen cup takes the cup (!) for being the most absurdly useless – a painted Hershey’s Kiss wrapper at best, it holds about 3-4 ounces with teensy wire handles. It looks like you’re off to high tea at The Savoy on the cheap. No wonder The Wall fell. Capitalism, of course, provides after-market solutions for non-US grunts to fill this void - most notably the BCB ‘Crusader Cup’ and accessories.

As long-time ETS’ers know, cups, mess kits, and stoves will put that, “Ooo… Shiny stuff!”, gleam in my eyes - a gleam that returned recently with two bits of kit that make the US Army canteen cup (remember Alberti’s definition) even more beautiful: Heavy Cover’s new Stainless Steel Lid for the canteen cup, and the new Stove Stand from Canteenshop.com.


HEAVY COVER

Heavy Cover has made a rubberized cover for the canteen cup for a couple of years. I’ve used one and found it is great for sealing up a newer cup (the ones with the ‘butterfly’ handles), but is a bit leaky with my older (1944) cup. I tried using it as a cover during boiling, and, well… I had a bit of a sticky situation. I still use my other one (they sent me two), but only as a cover to keep things warm after cooking or to keep campsite gunk from getting into the cup’s contents.

Heavy Cover recently started selling a Stainless Steel Cover for the canteen cup, something they have been promising for some time.





The top and skirt of the cover are heavy gauge stainless steel, and the top handle is a heavy gauge steel wire - large enough to grasp with gloves on and moves easily. The underside is polished, the makers claim, to be used as a signal mirror. Nice idea, but… They have never seen my field cleaning procedures. It won’t be polished for long.

First impression out of the box is the stainless steel cover seems as bombproof as the canteen cup itself. It is heavy, coming in at 5 ounces on it’s own.

But does it work? Short answer is, yes. Darn well. Using both my home-made stove (cliffSTOVE 2.0) and Rob’s Stove Stand from Canteenshop.com, I cut 1.5 - 2 minutes minimum off uncovered boiling times with both stoves (I did four boils each).

The cover fits snugly, but not too tight, on both the newer style GI cup and the older, handle-folded-under-the-cup variety. It goes on and comes off easily. But unlike HC’s soft cover, this one does not seal the cup. It wasn’t designed to. The cover has sets of small holes on either end of the skirt for draining, which allows one to drain veggies or pasta, or make ‘GI coffee’ without (as many) grounds in it. I made some of the latter as a test – boil water, throw some grounds in the cup, stir, cover, steep, and (cover on) pour into another cup. OK, gourmet French press, it ain’t. But it’s far better than the original “crunchy” variety, or those tasteless freeze-dried “coffee” packets you picked up at the hotel on your last vacation.

The other thing I like is the cover does not stick too far out from the lips of the canteen, which allows still my stove’s grill/bail to be used as a bail for over a fire.


with my bail/grille installed

My one criticism is where do you carry it? You can stick it in the bottom of the canteen cover, upturned, against the bottom of the cup. But if you have a stove stand about your cup (e.g., CanteenShop.com’s Stove Stand), it won’t fit. You could turn it over, but then the lips of the skirt are face down and could be bent if you bang around your canteen/cup/cover as much as I do. A small, but solvable, problem.

I have only one suggested improvement for the Heavy Cover folks: Make one set of the drain holes smaller and more numerous. For making less crunchy coffee.

The stainless steel cover is $20.00, and can be ordered directly from Heavy Cover.


CANTEENSHOP.COM

Since my Guard days I have been trying to come up with the perfect Natick-style stove stand. Several of my attempts are posted elsewhere on ETS. I’m a designer by disposition and by trade, so leaving well enough alone is not in my nature. I thought I had reached my Alberti moment with my cliffSTOVE 2.0… until now.


my most recent cliffSTOVE 2.0

Rob at Canteenshop.com has come up with a new canteen cup Stove Stand he is currently selling at his site that I think beats my home-made, hours-fiddling-in-the-workshop model:





Canteenshop.com’s offering is a stainless steel stand which looks like an upturned canteen cup, sans handles, with holes drilled through the top and on the sides. Four of the holes on the top are dimpled outward, to allow whatever you put on top – cup, mess kit pan, or pot – to sit about 1/8” off the surface to let the heat and flames flow evenly around.

My first try with Rob’s Stove Stand left me disappointed - 17 minutes and it did not boil two cups of water. I had seen his videos showing much better results, and was looking for some technical reason for this failure when it the obvious hit. I used a Trangia I had loaded with isopropyl alcohol a while back to do a stove presentation for Scouts. (Pause for moment while writer smacks self on forehead. Again.) Lesson here is CHECK! and RECHECK! and…

So the other weekend I ran another test, and… Rob’s Stove Stand is now my new canteen cup companion.

Both the Canteenshop.com Stove Stand and my stove stand design fit around a standard US Army canteen cup. Both can boil 500ml of water, using the HC lid and Trangia stove, in 9-10 minutes (no wind, 45 degrees F). Both can take more than a canteen cup for cooking – say, a mess kit pan or larger pot. Both can take a variety of fuels – alcohol stoves, wood, Trioxaine bars and Esbit tabs. Both are versatile. Rob claims his stand can be used as a colander (I can buy that), a berry picker (down here in Louisiana the food we pick usually has teeth, so I don’t know) and as a micro-barbie (one shrimp at a time, I guess.).


Canteenshop.com Stove Stand in action


with a UK mess tin

What made me change from my own design is simple - Rob’s Stove Stand is (remember that Alberti guy?) a bloody simple design. My design takes three components in order to work, Rob’s has one. That’s two fewer parts to keep up with, and potentially lose. Mine is lighter, but Rob’s is bombproof. So if I can reduce complexity, gain durability, and maintain the same performance, then why not?

That’s the good. Now for the downside. First, Rob’s Stove Stand is heavy. At 5 7/8 ounces of heavy-gauge stainless steel, it’s almost like adding another canteen cup in weight (8 1/8 ounces). Because it’s steel, the top of the stove can get glow-in-the-dark hot and, unlike an aluminum stand, it takes quite a while to cool down. Not a big deal if you aren’t in a hurry, but it could be if you are. Also, Rob’s stove stand looks susceptible to reduced performance in wind, which my design has proven not to be. (Didn’t have any wind to test with so I can’t say for sure. Sorry.)

And finally, when it’s packed in your canteen cover, the Stove Stand's four upturned dimples can abrade the bottom of your canteen cover over time. (I mentioned the abrading issue this to Rob, and he says he was aware of it and is looking at ideas to remedy the problem.)

All in all, the downsides do not outweigh the many good points of the design, in my opinion.

Another major advantage with Canteenshop.com’s Stove Stand for ETS’ers is this – Send Rob 20 bucks and he'll have one to you in a few days. If you want a cliffSTOVE 2.0, you’ll have to buy the parts and make it yourself. Cliff don’t take orders.

So in conclusion, I recommend both the Heavy Cover stainless steel cover, and the Stove Stand from Canteenshop.com. Yes, they are somewhat pricey for add-ons to a $10.00 cup. But they work – they enhance performance when cooking with a canteen cup, and both seem durable enough to not fail on you. In a crisis situation, that has a price all it’s own.

UPDATE 24FEB2011: Tonight we had some strong wind (it had nothing to do with my Mexican lunch; promise) so I put the Stove Stand to the test. Wow. It held up amazingly well given the gusts. I put a litre in the pot portion of a Swedish mess kit (stainless steel), and the more the wind blew the more flames engulfed the pot. The Trangia stove ran out of juice after 22 minutes (not unexpected with the wind), and the pot almost boiled. And I mean almost. I think the wind cooled down the pot, which, along with the reduced stove time, worked against the rolling bubbles. Had I used a secondary windscreen there would have been a litre of boiling water. No doubt.


Edited by cliff (02/25/11 04:56 AM)

Top
#217858 - 02/23/11 07:33 AM Re: One Cup At A Time: Two New Canteen Cup Goodies. [Re: cliff]
Hikin_Jim Offline
Sheriff
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1804
Loc: Southern California
Excellent write up on a subject near and dear to my heart (stoves). Looks like good kit albeit heavy as all get out. They need a Ti version. smile

Interestingly, the US Army has found that very few soldiers are carrying the canteen cup these days, mainly because very few soldiers are carrying canteens. The Camelbak craze has swept the army. Even the "E" version of the canteen (collapsible, like the 2 quart canteens have been for years) is no longer popular from what I've read. A rather quirky twist of fate for so loyal a companion (the canteen cup). I'm not sure that the US Army has fielded a replacement -- or that they even have on in mind. A nesting Camelbak cup hardly seems practical, lol.

HJ
_________________________
Adventures In Stoving

Top
#217861 - 02/23/11 10:05 AM Re: One Cup At A Time: Two New Canteen Cup Goodies. [Re: Hikin_Jim]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6572
Loc: southern Cal
Very nice writeup on an oldie but goodie hiking standby that is still useful for some situations. There actually is a titanium version(s). Various ti cups fit deftly around a Nalgene water bottle, or even better, a recycled quart beverage bottle, and give you the same capability at lighter weight. My setup is powered by the same Trangia stove, which is close to being a timeless classic.
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

Top
#217863 - 02/23/11 11:59 AM Re: One Cup At A Time: Two New Canteen Cup Goodies. [Re: cliff]
Dagny Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1916
Loc: Washington, DC

Thank you for this information, first time I've looked at the canteenshop.com website. Be Prepared To Survive recently began carrying that stove stand, too.

http://www.bepreparedtosurvive.com/Stove...20Stove%20Stand

I already have so many other options for carrying water and cooking but the canteen's esteemed and long history is alluring.

Top
#217873 - 02/23/11 02:55 PM Re: One Cup At A Time: Two New Canteen Cup Goodies. [Re: Dagny]
leemann Offline
Soylent Green
Addict

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 622
Loc: At the soylent green plant.
Nice thanks for the info,

Lee
_________________________
It's the year 2022...People are still the same
They'll do anything to get what they need.
And they need Soylent Green.
http://datacore.sciflicks.com/soylent_green/sounds/soylent_green_people.wav
RIP OBG

Top
#217889 - 02/23/11 09:02 PM Re: One Cup At A Time: Two New Canteen Cup Goodies. [Re: cliff]
JBMat Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 745
Loc: NC
I carried a canteen cup even after I quit carrying canteens (and I caught hell for that, as it was SOP to carry two. Try explaining to your 1SG why a camelback was better before they became issue.)

The cup has many uses, least of which is to drink from. The one thing I don't like is that it cools the liquid too quickly. I'm going to be painting mine black and see if that helps any. I also have a stove - cheap aluminum cup shaped, carried it on my other canteen, then w/ the cup). I found that by canting the cup so it doesn't fit directly helped when trying to seperate the two.

Top
#217891 - 02/23/11 11:04 PM Re: One Cup At A Time: Two New Canteen Cup Goodies. [Re: cliff]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3561
Loc: Spring, Texas
Clap clap clap clap clap clap clap!
Bravo, sir. That was a mighty fine post...which will soon cost me more money.

I'm starting to understand you stove guys. It's not that you want a lot of stoves and such, you just want one better than what you currently have...

-Blast


Edited by Blast (02/24/11 01:36 AM)
Edit Reason: spelling
_________________________
Blogging the Borderlands
Wild Edibles Blog
I miss OBG.

Top
#217892 - 02/23/11 11:18 PM Re: One Cup At A Time: Two New Canteen Cup Goodies. [Re: Blast]
Hikin_Jim Offline
Sheriff
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1804
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: Blast
I'm starting to understand you stove guys. It's not that you want a lot of stoves and such, you just want one better than what you currently have...
Oh, but that one over there has this feature and that one over there has that feature... just one more...

I can quit any time. wink

HJ
_________________________
Adventures In Stoving

Top
#217896 - 02/23/11 11:24 PM Re: One Cup At A Time: Two New Canteen Cup Goodies. [Re: cliff]
cliff Offline
Sultan of Spiffy
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/12/01
Posts: 271
Loc: Louisiana
Blast:

Just doing my part to stimulate the economy. You didn't need that cash anyway. grin grin

.....cliff
(like, who else?)


Edited by cliff (02/24/11 12:46 AM)

Top
#217900 - 02/24/11 02:00 AM Re: One Cup At A Time: Two New Canteen Cup Goodies. [Re: cliff]
LED Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 1474
Thanks for the writeup cliff, I really like that stainless lid. Surplus canteen cup is what what I used since I first started camping. I used to just cover the top with aluminum foil and place it on the fire coals. Boils in no time. Don't carry it anymore but its perfect for the car kit.

Top
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >



Moderator:  Alan_Romania, Blast, chaosmagnet, cliff 
October
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30 31
Who's Online
0 registered (), 245 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
DaveL, Dale, rac, Boris, helium_voices
5265 Registered Users
Newest Posts
Florida residents desperate for food and shelter
by Ian
07:43 AM
get a cheap laptop
by dougwalkabout
03:35 AM
Best use of time, money
by TeacherRO
06:48 PM
I'm Not Coming Home
by Jeanette_Isabelle
10/14/18 05:49 PM
Winter preps -- Time for the switch over
by dougwalkabout
10/12/18 03:01 AM
Preparing less
by LesSnyder
10/12/18 02:44 AM
Is your EDC fixed or flexible?
by CJK
10/10/18 10:27 PM
What did you do today to prepare?
by LesSnyder
10/10/18 02:51 AM
Newest Images
Tiny knife / wrench
Handmade knives
2"x2" Glass Signal Mirror, Retroreflective Mesh
Trade School Tool Kit
My Pocket Kit
Glossary
Test

WARNING & DISCLAIMER: SELECT AND USE OUTDOORS AND SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT, SUPPLIES AND TECHNIQUES AT YOUR OWN RISK. Information posted on this forum is not reviewed for accuracy and may not be reliable, use at your own risk. Please review the full WARNING & DISCLAIMER about information on this site.