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#216230 - 02/02/11 12:48 AM Re: How to foil wide-scale internet shutdown [Re: MrEnergyCzar]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Quote:
You can use your old dial-up connections or ham radio like they are in Egypt. In Egypt they call out to other countries dial up numbers.....


Using a Dial-up connection may get you to web servers outside the jurisdiction of the Internet kill switch within the USA (if that ever happened). If for example you lived in California and wanted to comment on this forum, dialing into Mexico or Mongolia isn't probably going to help but at least the BBC world service Internet radio will tell you why you can't. wink

http://www.egyptianmuseum.gov.eg/

Dial up or Satelite DSL, DSL, ADSL, T1 or Packet SW Radio, still won't get you connected to the Egyptian Muesum for example.

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#216234 - 02/02/11 02:14 AM Re: How to foil wide-scale internet shutdown [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2203
Loc: Bucks County PA
The point is to put pinholes into the closed network.
One route to the outside is a route to the inside.
Limit it to a lightweight protocol like IRC...and you're communicating.

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#216235 - 02/02/11 02:17 AM Re: How to foil wide-scale internet shutdown [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
philip Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 639
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Originally Posted By: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor
Using a Dial-up connection may get you to web servers outside the jurisdiction of the Internet kill switch within the USA (if that ever happened). If for example you lived in California and wanted to comment on this forum, dialing into Mexico or Mongolia isn't probably going to help

>SNIP<

Dial up or Satelite DSL, DSL, ADSL, T1 or Packet SW Radio, still won't get you connected to the Egyptian Muesum for example.


On the other hand, people fomenting riot aren't interested in getting connected to the Egyptian Museum. Using a modem and landline to dial out to international numbers can get your message tweeted online where those outside the country can read it (including the government, of course).

And Packet Radio will let you communicate to other hams within the country so they can coordinate meetings and the like without actually saying the words "meet me at the Golden Door at five." And the packets stay on a node (which can be in another country outside the reach of men with guns) till the recipient can get on the air to receive them.

And a big issue is health and welfare. Leaving messages that say "I'm well" is often the goal and a huge relief to friends and family outside the area. There are a great many uses for messaging other than reaching the Egyptian Museum or coordinating strikes and protests.

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#217250 - 02/16/11 08:17 PM Re: How to foil wide-scale internet shutdown [Re: GarlyDog]
quick_joey_small Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 574
Loc: UK
Good article in todays new york times about how the egyptian government managed to shut down the net in minutes. some of the back ups didn't work either, because the software to revert to internet relay chat for instance, was outside egypt and even local egyptian services relied on servers outside the country.
qjs

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#217264 - 02/16/11 08:56 PM Re: How to foil wide-scale internet shutdown [Re: GarlyDog]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3219
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Another article on how it happened:

"For all the Internet’s vaunted connectivity, the Egyptian government commanded powerful instruments of control: it owns the pipelines that carry information across the country and out into the world.

Internet experts say similar arrangements are more common in authoritarian countries than is generally recognized. In Syria, for example, the Syrian Telecommunications Establishment dominates the infrastructure, and the bulk of the international traffic flows through a single pipeline to Cyprus. Jordan, Qatar, Oman, Saudi Arabia and other Middle Eastern countries have the same sort of dominant, state-controlled carrier."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/how-egypt-killed-the-internet/article1909478/

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#217267 - 02/16/11 09:17 PM Re: How to foil wide-scale internet shutdown [Re: dougwalkabout]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078


From the linked article..

Quote:
Because the Internet’s legendary robustness.....

LOL...

Even the UK up until 1992 didn't use TCP/IP for its doomsday comms (possibly still doesn't)

http://www.ringbell.co.uk/ukwmo/index.htm

Fascinating stuff. wink

Quote:
Internet experts say similar arrangements are more common in authoritarian countries than is generally recognized. In Syria, for example, the Syrian Telecommunications Establishment dominates the infrastructure, and the bulk of the international traffic flows through a single pipeline to Cyprus. Jordan, Qatar, Oman, Saudi Arabia and other Middle Eastern countries have the same sort of dominant, state-controlled carrier."


They forgot to include the UK in the list. wink



Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (02/16/11 09:19 PM)

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#217415 - 02/17/11 11:53 PM Re: How to foil wide-scale internet shutdown [Re: GarlyDog]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
Word I got was that Egypt was able to cut off the internet because the state runs the main connections to the www and landlines.

Twitter, using wireless connections, some of which cross international borders, was far less successful. The leadership was not up to date on their plans for dealing with an uprising. This was made clear when the government sent troops to surround the TV and radio stations. This would have been fairly effective in controlling the media in the 80s but now it just highlights how out of touch the ruler was.

Political observers also noted that turning off access to the internet seems to have backfired. When the internet was available many people would spend their time raging and letting off steam on the internet. When the connection was lost people lost the last outlet for their frustrations and ... wait for it ... went out on the streets to protest.

The US telecommunication system, highly integrated across media and platforms, with many redundant paths to get virtually anywhere, would be much harder to control. It wouldn't be impossible, just much more complicated and difficult.

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#217417 - 02/18/11 12:47 AM Re: How to foil wide-scale internet shutdown [Re: Art_in_FL]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Quote:
The US telecommunication system, highly integrated across media and platforms, with many redundant paths to get virtually anywhere, would be much harder to control.


Not really, there are only around 7 fibre backbone circuit carrier providers in the USA.

http://navigators.com/internet_architecture.html#ISP_Backbone

Even taking out a few of the major telecoms players using Emergency powers legislation would basically make normal Internet (as folks now expect to use there computers for email, messaging, social networking etc) usage virtually unworkable.

There are around 30-50 submarine cables operating from maybe a dozen geographical location nodes.

http://www.verizonbusiness.com/ca/about/network/maps/map.xml

Disabling these cables (physically just a few axe blows in the right places) would turn off a huge amount of the worlds Internet traffic running from the USA to Europe, Asia and central and South America. This would effectively isolate the USA from the rest of the world.

http://listicles.thelmagazine.com/wp-content/upload/webmap07-telegeography.jpg

http://www.chrisharrison.net/projects/InternetMap/medium/worldBlack.jpg

Internal Internet network traffic within the USA would be effected just by pulling the plug on the backbone fibre main switch node centres.

The DHS know where the vulnerabilities are located to kill the Internet in the USA, if they did not then how can they protect those vulnerabilities from Terrorist and Cyber attack (i.e. the old fashioned Spetznaz with their sharp edged shovels) wink









Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (02/18/11 01:05 AM)

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#217418 - 02/18/11 01:14 AM Re: How to foil wide-scale internet shutdown [Re: GarlyDog]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
LOL.

There are a lot of ways around those fiber backbones. ie: there is an entire array of similar fiber paths around the world. No need to shoot a signal directly from NYC to LA when you can route through Europe - Russia - China and pop into LA via the Mexican cell system. There are also private satellites, WiFi links that can be stacked to jump hundreds of miles, digital cell connections, and good old fashion patching through on ham radio. Point being anyone wanting to limit information can slow it by controling the main fiber links but they can't, not without a huge amount of trouble, eliminate it entirely.

It also has to be pointed out that nobody is going to physically cut the lines. First, you may capture or control a resource but you do not destroy it. Cutting it automatically triggers work-arounds. Slowing it to a near stop is more effective because it backs up the system without destroying anything and forces the system to keep checking back.

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#217421 - 02/18/11 01:55 AM Re: How to foil wide-scale internet shutdown [Re: Art_in_FL]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Quote:
There are a lot of ways around those fiber backbones. ie: there is an entire array of similar fiber paths around the world. No need to shoot a signal directly from NYC to LA when you can route through Europe - Russia - China and pop into LA via the Mexican cell system. There are also private satellites, WiFi links that can be stacked to jump hundreds of miles, digital cell connections, and good old fashion patching through on ham radio. Point being anyone wanting to limit information can slow it by controling the main fiber links but they can't, not without a huge amount of trouble, eliminate it entirely.


Even assuming that the transatlantic and transpacific fat pipes were still available, if you look at Internet map

http://listicles.thelmagazine.com/wp-content/upload/webmap07-telegeography.jpg

the direct route takes you fom NYC to LA via Washington via 500Gbps and 250Gbps links. If you were to route your packets the long way around, then getting to Europe isn't a problem from NYC going via 500Gbps links. You then either route through the middle east (Russia is a dead end), India, Asia (Hong Kong to Tokyo) etc all of which are on less than 10Gbps links before crossing the Pacific again back to LA on 250Gbps link once more. Thats a 50-1 bottle neck just for a single fibre link lost internally within the US, not even including the normal Europe/Asia traffic using these <10Gbps links. Thats virtually equivalent to putting 10 lane motorway LA rush hour traffic on the B955 to Glen Clova. (yes the B955 does have passing places every quarter mile or so) whistle





Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (02/18/11 02:01 AM)

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