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#216270 - 02/02/11 03:06 PM Re: Ice Storm on the way....could be big. [Re: Blast]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
People trying to keep their homes warm during a blizzard in winter? What are they thinking? Just bundle up, drain the plumbing so it doesn't burst and let the house go cold. You may lose a Canary or three and the aquarium fish may need replacements, but NBD . . . whistle Wood stoves are a great invention. It's surprising so few have caught on to this technology.

"power company was taken by surprise by the energy demands " What could they have done on short notice other than rolling blackouts? It's not like they can pull a new power-plant out of their back-pocket on short notice. Importing power may also be a non-starter when the storm covers such a vast area. I imagine blackouts will be fairly typical in many of the areas/states hit by this storm.
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#216273 - 02/02/11 03:47 PM Re: Ice Storm on the way....could be big. [Re: Russ]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3760
Loc: TX
Quote:
"power company was taken by surprise by the energy demands " What could they have done on short notice other than rolling blackouts? It's not like they can pull a new power-plant out of their back-pocket on short notice. Importing power may also be a non-starter when the storm covers such a vast area. I imagine blackouts will be fairly typical in many of the areas/states hit by this storm.


Here in Houston, Texas the only problem is the cold, no snow or ice. The power company has a number of "spare" gas-fired powerplants around the city that come on line during the summer when it gets hot and everyone turns on their AC units. They are designed to be fired up and running within an hour once a certain energy demand threshold is met. For some reason no one thought to have these stations manned during this cold snap.

The power has been going on and off all morning, usually off for 1 hour then on for 5 minutes.

-Blast


Edited by Blast (02/02/11 03:47 PM)
Edit Reason: spelling
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#216280 - 02/02/11 05:31 PM Re: Ice Storm on the way....could be big. [Re: Blast]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Got it. Poor planning. They probably have those plants in hibernation and didn't want the expense of bringing them back on line. Rolling black-outs less costly ($$ bottom line). Some efficiency expert probably did the math -- rather than a customer.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#216283 - 02/02/11 06:21 PM Re: Ice Storm on the way....could be big. [Re: Russ]
ajax Offline
Member

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 112
Originally Posted By: Russ
Got it. Poor planning. They probably have those plants in hibernation and didn't want the expense of bringing them back on line. Rolling black-outs less costly ($$ bottom line). Some efficiency expert probably did the math -- rather than a customer.


If that were true then why have the extra plants at all? The true cost is probably going to be someone's job. We have a satellite office in Austin and they are completely unable to work. Sure they're staying warm enough but this completely shuts down all ability to do business. The money being "saved" cannot equal the money being lost right now.

I'm going to agree with Blast, this is a huge lack of preparation by the utilities.
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#216285 - 02/02/11 06:49 PM Re: Ice Storm on the way....could be big. [Re: ajax]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
As Blast mentioned the plants come on line during summer months to provide for air conditioning. They are then probably powered down (put in hibernation) for the season. Yes, they probably can be powered up if the bean counters figure it's good for the utility's bottom line -- not necessarily the customer's best interests. My opinion, no idea how utilities make those types of management decisions, but $$ bottom line will be a major concern.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#216377 - 02/03/11 10:46 PM Re: Ice Storm on the way....could be big. [Re: MartinFocazio]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Potential for another monster north east Boxing Day blizzard late next week on top of the 8-10 (New England) inches this weekend. eek

http://www.accuweather.com/video/655578741001/two-snowstorms-in-the-next-7-d.asp



NASA snow coverage from the 1st Feb 2011

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...d-snow-ice.html






Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (02/03/11 10:51 PM)

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#216388 - 02/04/11 12:31 AM Re: Ice Storm on the way....could be big. [Re: Russ]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3219
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By: Russ
As Blast mentioned the plants come on line during summer months to provide for air conditioning. They are then probably powered down (put in hibernation) for the season. Yes, they probably can be powered up if the bean counters figure it's good for the utility's bottom line -- not necessarily the customer's best interests. My opinion, no idea how utilities make those types of management decisions, but $$ bottom line will be a major concern.


In fairness, it may not only be dollars. It can take a week or two to take a plant that's essentially mothballed and get it online; you can't bypass the checklist for safe and stable operation. It takes a fair bit of coordination between many utilities to get fuel in and power out. Also, there needs to be adequate "main plant" capacity to balance the inductive vs. resistive loads and keep the system stable. So, it's very different from just spooling up a plant that's already on standby. You can't just fly by the seat of your pants.


Edited by dougwalkabout (02/04/11 12:32 AM)

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#216396 - 02/04/11 01:16 AM Re: Ice Storm on the way....could be big. [Re: ]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3219
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By: IzzyJG99
Originally Posted By: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor
Potential for another monster north east Boxing Day blizzard late next week on top of the 8-10 (New England) inches this weekend. eek

http://www.accuweather.com/video/655578741001/two-snowstorms-in-the-next-7-d.asp



NASA snow coverage from the 1st Feb 2011

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...d-snow-ice.html



Looks creepily like what the World looked like at the end of the Last Glacial Period/Pleistocene.


Hmm, interesting thought. On a related note, I could swear my cats are growing extra-long incisors, and watching the elephants intently when Planet Earth is playing. Do they know something I don't? shocked

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#216436 - 02/04/11 06:52 PM Re: Ice Storm on the way....could be big. [Re: Russ]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3760
Loc: TX
Originally Posted By: Russ
Got it. Poor planning. They probably have those plants in hibernation and didn't want the expense of bringing them back on line. Rolling black-outs less costly ($$ bottom line). Some efficiency expert probably did the math -- rather than a customer.


Turns out that Texas had a contract with Mexican power plants to supply us with emergency electricity during the winter months. Unfortunately when it came time to send us power they reneged on the deal leading to our blackouts. Worse, this meant Texas didn't have the power to send natural gas to New Mexico, so they ran out. This left many NM residents and companies freezing.

It's a complex world, folks. Probably too complex...
-Blast
_________________________
Foraging Texas
Medicine Man Plant Co.
DrMerriwether on YouTube
Radio Call Sign: KI5BOG
*As an Amazon Influencer, I may earn a sales commission on Amazon links in my posts.

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#216437 - 02/04/11 06:59 PM Re: Ice Storm on the way....could be big. [Re: Blast]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
I just caught a news article that some Dallas hospitals, including a trauma center, were caught by rolling blackouts even though they should have been spared since they are classified "critical infrastructure". Somebody goofed on that one. Emergency generators are no substitute for mains power in most hospitals.

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