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#215413 - 01/21/11 09:44 PM Re: Truly Unprepared [Re: TeacherRO]
hikermor Offline
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Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6815
Loc: southern Cal
It is truly amazing how cheaply the basic items can be acquired - and how much difference they can make in a pinch.
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#215439 - 01/22/11 01:33 PM Re: Truly Unprepared [Re: TeacherRO]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3601
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: TeacherRO
I may have to add this to my classes -- Make a pack of the basic ten items -- for every hike. Make it and stash it in your car. Cost $25. Usefulness on an overnight? Priceless.


YES! YES! YES! But how do we get people to carry it after they make and stash it? We made lanyards with our Beaver Scouts families in the fall, including a beaded lanyard, Fox 40s and a squeeze light. Pretty simple. We review hug-a-tree before every outting, and still they all come without their lanyards just about every time. I can't have them without whistles, so lend simple lanyards to everyone every time. I don't expect the 5-8 year olds or their non-scouting siblings to remember, but moms and dads are leading by poor example. How do we beat the "someone else will take care of me" mentality?
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#215450 - 01/22/11 03:42 PM Re: Truly Unprepared [Re: bacpacjac]
hikermor Offline
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Loc: southern Cal
Sit the little blighters down and give them some actual case histories. Include some, not all, with bad outcomes.

The reason I suggest this is that it worked for me, back when I was young and clueless (big advance now - I am old and clueless). When I became interested in mountaineering, I started reading, and it became obvious that unanticipated bivouacs and accidents were part of the game. It gradually occurred to me that a certain amount of preparation could indeed come in handy. And later on, it did - in spades.

Still later, it was very evident that the common characteristic of nearly all our accident victims was inexperience - they simply had no apprehension of the hazards and the necessary defensive measures appropriate to the outdoor environment.

Go through the kits and role play - demonstrate the utility of what you are requiring them to carry.

You might also present a "Hug a Tree" session. This is a program that has effectively aided young kids in the outdoors. You might also get a presentation from your local SAR group; I'll bet they would be willing.
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#215457 - 01/22/11 04:32 PM Re: Truly Unprepared [Re: hikermor]
TeacherRO Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2396
Agreed - my "winter car survival kits" are under $5 to replace the perishables each year. But when they are needed, they are really needed.

Stages of a big storm on the great plains

1. big blow a comin'
2. snow
3. they stop plowing
4. they close the highways and stop patrolling them

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#215469 - 01/22/11 06:27 PM Re: Truly Unprepared [Re: TeacherRO]
lifeview Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/09/06
Posts: 80
Loc: Nashville,TN USA
Here's a link to a recent communication sent to our customers.

Seems relevant to the discussion-nothing groundbreaking, just an on-going reminder be prepared while in the backcountry.

Mike
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#215480 - 01/22/11 11:53 PM Re: Truly Unprepared [Re: hikermor]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3601
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Great ideas hikermor! thanks!
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#215488 - 01/23/11 01:53 AM Re: Truly Unprepared [Re: hikermor]
Susan Offline
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Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
"Sit the little blighters down and give them some actual case histories. Include some, not all, with bad outcomes."

And don't just tell them stories! Make them THINK! Point your finger at one and ask a question: What would you do if..........?" Be sure to do it with the parents, too. Then discuss their ideas and work through the pros and cons.

The problem is that most of your audience are totally self-centered, have always had rescue just a cell call away, and have always had someone bailing them out of their problems. NAIL THEM!

Ask some of the parents how they're going to feel if SAR or the National Guard or the Army can't get their kids out of a bad situation. Ask what they intend to do if SAR can't get to THEM. Are they just going to cry, or wear down their cell batteries trying to browbeat someone into putting their own lives in danger because of their own carelessness, stupidity, and lack of preparation. Put them in a Kim Family situation and ask how they intend to handle it.

Sue


Edited by Susan (01/23/11 01:54 AM)

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#215522 - 01/23/11 11:46 AM Re: Truly Unprepared [Re: hikermor]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3601
Loc: Ontario, Canada
I like the way you think Sue!

One of our dads fell in the creek during the summer and broke his ankle. He's a huge guy and couldn't get himself out of the creek bed. He was out with his sister and their three kids, catching crawfish to use as fishing bait, something they do all the time. His two kids are in our Beaver Scouts group and wanted to take their lanyards but he told them they didn't need them. They had nothing with them but two cell phones, including the one that took a bath when he fell. He still doesn't get get. He thinks it was a complete fluke. He's an avid angler and hunter and this is his standard o/p.

While training a couple of our new leaders before Winter Camp next weekend, we talked about that accident and did exactly as you suggest. What if they were out of cell range? What if nobody was home when they called and the OPP couldn't find them? ("We're down where Pete split his lip that time" wouldn't be very much help to them.) What if the accident happened at the end of the day instead of the middle of the afternoon? What if it was late summer when the nights get chilly? What if the injury was worse? What if he was alone with the kids? etc.

Our two new leaders got it and we've been thinking about a group discussion with all the parents and kids. Three of us have gone down with major injuries in non-scouting accidents over the past 7 months so we have plenty of personal examples. Lead by that limpy dad, there's a feeling that "we shouldn't scare the kids". I agree that we don't want the kids scared in an emergency but preparing them BEFORE one is essential. They're going to be a lot worse off then, especially if their grown-ups are unprepared. It makes me heard hurt. Thankfully that family isn't coming to camp so I don't have to deal with dad, who thinks we're going overboard on the "Be prepared" motto when we ask everyone to wear a lanyard and bring a backpack with a water bottle when we're out.
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#215523 - 01/23/11 12:10 PM Re: Truly Unprepared [Re: hikermor]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3601
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: hikermor

Go through the kits and role play - demonstrate the utility of what you are requiring them to carry.

You might also present a "Hug a Tree" session. This is a program that has effectively aided young kids in the outdoors. You might also get a presentation from your local SAR group; I'll bet they would be willing.


Great ideas hikermor! thanks!

Inviting an S&R to present is a brilliant idea!

i don't know why i haven't thought of roleplaying before. My son, niece and nephew love it, and they have a blast coming up with ideas about the gear in their packs . Yesterday as i was repacking my own, i took out the aluminun back supports, and my son immediately grabbed them and started telling me all the things i could use them for. he had a pretty good list too - splints, shelter poles, fishing rod, rack for cooking, sticks to throw for hunting, reflector for a rescue signal, bang them against each other to make noise... everthing else pretty much needed a blowtorch and a harry potter spell to construct. (he is seven afterall!)
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#215525 - 01/23/11 12:50 PM Re: Truly Unprepared [Re: bacpacjac]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6815
Loc: southern Cal
I think your seven year old is a bit brighter than the clueless Dad you were discussing. Sounds like your son is set to deal with uncertainties..

I think it is worth while to point out what a group in difficulty can do immediately - build a fire, stop the bleeding, etc. as opposed to calling for help with cell phone or PLB, CB radio or whatever. There is an inevitable amount of lag time when outsiders respond, ranging from hours to days, and the immediate action taken by the group is going to make a huge difference.

Some people are incredibly passive when confronted with an emergency,mostly because they haven't prepped themselves.

I am sure you can train your group without "scaring" them; you will be developing the quiet self confidence that will enable them to deal effectively with whatever situations they will encounter later in life. Actually, the tougher task is to educate the parents...


Edited by hikermor (01/23/11 02:04 PM)
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