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#215465 - 01/22/11 05:32 PM Re: First-Aid Kits Saved Lives At Tucson Massacre [Re: Dagny]
JohnN Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 966
Loc: Seattle, WA
Note their kit contains QC *gauze*, not powder.

-john

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#215478 - 01/22/11 11:43 PM Re: First-Aid Kits Saved Lives At Tucson Massacre [Re: Dagny]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
Given that emergency personnel were on scene in minutes I suspect that what was lacking was training and a willingness to overcome the reticence to get involved. Handkerchiefs, ties, tee shirts, socks, belts can all be pressed into service to cover the gap as the EMTs are coming your way.

I also doubt that quick-clot, or similar, would have made a huge difference. In the time it took to dig out and open you could have installed an expedient tourniquet or simply applied direct pressure.

IMHO the key is to act quickly. Going with whatever you have on hand, even if it is a partial or incomplete solution, is better than the better solution applied when you get back with your kit.

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#215541 - 01/23/11 08:11 PM Re: First-Aid Kits Saved Lives At Tucson Massacre [Re: hikermor]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: hikermor
...what do the Red Cross, etc., say about QC? Any discussions about use/missuse in the medical or emergency literature?

My Red Cross first aid class about a year or so ago did not mention anything other than direct pressure. That includes pressure points, but those were only mentioned briefly during the class.

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#215582 - 01/24/11 05:39 AM Re: First-Aid Kits Saved Lives At Tucson Massacre [Re: Arney]
MarkO Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 137
Loc: Oregon
I took my First Responder recert through the Red Cross just last week. The instructor was an experienced combat medic with time in Iraq amongst other places.

He wasn't big on the powdered blood clotting agents. He did like the bandages with the agents in it however.

Just my 2c.

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#215638 - 01/25/11 01:04 AM Re: First-Aid Kits Saved Lives At Tucson Massacre [Re: JohnN]
ScoutDad Offline
Stranger

Registered: 01/25/11
Posts: 3
Loc: New England
QuikClot is now in both gauze and "bean bag" form. The old powder product (1st gen) that was difficult to clean out of wounds and was hot hasn't been available for a couple of years. The company now has a couple of different lines of products (OTC, hospital, law enforcement and EMS). The manufacturer's site (www.z-medica.com) has good info on the latest versions of their product. I always carry it in my go kit.
_________________________
Measure life not by the number of breaths you take...but by how many times it gets taken away!

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#215733 - 01/27/11 02:14 AM Re: First-Aid Kits Saved Lives At Tucson Massacre [Re: Dagny]
MBO Offline
Stranger

Registered: 02/16/09
Posts: 6
I re-certed my Wilderness First Responder with NOLS a few months ago, and asked specifically about QuikClot. Their take is that direct pressure and well-maintained tourniquets are the better way to go. They argue that QuikClot and similar agents are introducing a foreign substance into an open wound, and if that can be avoided by using alternate techniques, it should.

We also had another guy there who purported to work at the Pentagon - I was in Northern Virginia at the time, so it's plausible, though I didn't ask the guy for identification - and said that this was the military's current procedure too, to only use QC when other treatments were failing. Anybody here able to confirm/deny that?

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#215748 - 01/27/11 11:47 AM Re: First-Aid Kits Saved Lives At Tucson Massacre [Re: Dagny]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
Look at the estimated component cost on the QC gauze - $40. I can equip alot of layman's First Aid Kits for that cost alone. For an EMT or police first responder I agree, go with what is most effective for what you encounter, which includes QC bandages for gun shots and other open bleeds. I'm happy they could afford that in Tuscon. For my kit and my general experience, I see more head trauma and broken bones than excessive bleeding, which I think is fairly typical of passerby first aid. Why should I carry a relatively expensive (and time expiring) QC bandage for a wound I seldom if ever will treat? With non-QC pressure bandages and TQs, I feel ready enough for a major bleed.

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#215754 - 01/27/11 02:43 PM Re: First-Aid Kits Saved Lives At Tucson Massacre [Re: Lono]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7052
Loc: southern Cal
I agree, thanks to your comments and the others on this thread. I had no idea that QC had an expiration date. Is that date affected by storage conditions, particularly temperatures? I store my principal FAK in my solar cooker (automobile).


Edited by hikermor (01/27/11 03:48 PM)
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#215757 - 01/27/11 03:17 PM Re: First-Aid Kits Saved Lives At Tucson Massacre [Re: Dagny]
Tyber Offline
Sheriff
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/27/09
Posts: 292
Loc: ST. Paul MN
Thanks for posting this. it just reafirms the fact that for $40 you can add safty and give people a fighting chance.



Edited by Tyber (01/27/11 03:17 PM)

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#215769 - 01/27/11 05:37 PM Re: First-Aid Kits Saved Lives At Tucson Massacre [Re: hikermor]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
Originally Posted By: hikermor
I agree, thanks to your comments and the others on this thread. I had no idea that QC had an expiration date. Is that date affected by storage conditions, particularly temperatures? I store my principal FAK in my solar cooker (automobile).


From the FAQ - http://www.z-medica.com/healthcare/How-QuikClot-Works/FAQs.aspx#faq_1

What is the shelf-life of QuikClot dressings and are there any special storage instructions?An unopened package of QuikClot has a shelf life of three years. The only storage direction is to not leave a pack of QuikClot in direct sunlight for extended periods of time. QuikClot can also be stored in very high or low temperatures (below freezing).

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