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#212504 - 12/06/10 08:45 PM Re: Winter Car Kits [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2921
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor
Currently there are 10,000s of motorists (estimated 20-40 mile motorway bumper to bumper tail back) know stranded on the main motorway between Glasgow and Edinburgh (M8) facing an unexpected overnight (currently 20:45 GMT) stay in their cars in -15C temperatures. Many of them were morning commuters so have already been stranded for 12 hours in freezing temperatures.

AFLM, I think this is worth a separate thread. I'd be interested in ongoing media links also.

#212527 - 12/07/10 12:21 AM Re: Winter Car Kits [Re: dougwalkabout]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078

I'd be interested in ongoing media links also.

A media link from earlier this evening, from STV based in Glasgow


The situation has not made any of the front pages of the London based newspapers, they would rather have pictures of Sharm El Shiek Sharks and China men dressed up as Pandas.

In fact there is very little coverage of these emergency events on going here probably due to the embarrassment of the incompetent Scottish and UK governments. i.e. even when the Scottish transport minister was asked directly in a TV interview for an estimate of the numbers of people who were stranded on the the motorway network in central Scotland he blatantly dodged the question even though he had just been at an emergency government meeting. You would think this would be one of the questions asked at that meeting.

Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (12/07/10 12:35 AM)

#212529 - 12/07/10 12:40 AM Re: Winter Car Kits [Re: Dagny]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078

Going to the bathroom would be miserable (and too public for comfort).

Apparently the Police that were on the scene were stopping stranded motorists from walking to nearby service stations for food, water and bathroom relief etc as they wanted these folks to remain in their vehicles.

#212532 - 12/07/10 01:07 AM Re: Winter Car Kits [Re: Dagny]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7367
Loc: southern Cal
Originally Posted By: Dagny

5 degrees Fahrenheit would be a miserable night with my half-ton of gear.

My Minnesota relatives say "There is no such thing as bad weather, there are only bad clothes." There is something to that when you think about it, although it is small comfort when you are hit with something well beyond normal expectations.
Geezer in Chief

#212537 - 12/07/10 01:30 AM Re: Winter Car Kits [Re: Frisket]
Byrd_Huntr Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 01/28/10
Posts: 1174
Loc: MN, Land O' Lakes & Rivers ...
I carry a pretty sizable amount of stuff with me, and I have had the need to use some of it. Frost-proof food, shovel, hatchet, flashlight, candles, fire, snow melting/cooking pot, FAK, hand tools, big Vic SAK, Mora Clipper, two blankets, compass, maps, jumper cables, spare glasses, and my heavy blaze orange deer hunting clothes, hat, choppers and pac boots actually used when I got stuck in the snow and had to walk 7 miles at night in 1 degree snowy weather to a truck stop in a very remote but familiar area to get a tow truck. Cell phone does not work everywhere I go.
The man got the powr but the byrd got the wyng

#212564 - 12/07/10 04:04 AM Re: Winter Car Kits [Re: Frisket]
Art_in_FL Offline

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
Historically the Brits, and Western Europeans in general, have a very good record for protecting people and dealing with such situations.

There is also a very good reason for wanting people to stay with their vehicles. If everyone stays with their vehicle rescuers can go to each vehicle and move people out systematically while keeping a tight inventory on everyone so nobody gets missed or left behind.

If people wander off the authorities can't so easily be sure that the people are safe. Did they pop into a nearby bar? Are they presently warm and safe and drunk? Or did they take off cross-country where they can't be found? Each person will have to be tracked down to make sure they haven't collapsed into a snow bank. Finding people who wander off would be a huge job that could require dozens of responders. All of which are potentially risking injury themselves.

Initial response would be to get to each vehicle and make an inventory of people and emergency needs. If the people are reasonably safe where they are it is better to leave them there until a major effort can be mounted to get people out systematically. Extraction would be limited to those in vehicles that can't protect the passengers and people with serious medical issues. Healthy people in situations that are not immediately dangerous can expect to wait. Hundreds uncomfortable, for however long it takes, as long as everyone gets out alive is preferred over most people comfortable, but a few dead.

#212566 - 12/07/10 04:26 AM Re: Winter Car Kits [Re: Frisket]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2921
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Good point. Generally, when inexperienced and unprepared people leave their cars, their odds of getting into serious trouble go way up.

That said, a big order of fish and chips and a couple of pints/brandies would take the sting right out of being stranded. So if you're popping out to a pub, have the courtesy to leave a note and several contact numbers in your car.

EDIT: To continue the threadjack: what sort of tires are normally on vehicles over there? The photos I'm looking at show what Albertans call a "dusting" of snow -- routine overnight stuff, not much more than a nuisance. But if people normally have hard-compound summer tires, it would be a disaster. Zero traction.

Edited by dougwalkabout (12/07/10 04:49 AM)

#212572 - 12/07/10 06:49 AM Re: Winter Car Kits [Re: Frisket]
dweste Offline

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
If form and content should follow function, then a kit's function offers guidance. All of my kits evolve to address the functional categories: first aid, shelter, water, food, fire, navigation, communication, hygiene, and morale.

For winter vehicle travel, I know I will have my EDC, PFAK, PSK, and BOB already. My car kit amplifies each functional category with more robust and abundant gear, plus vehicle maintenance and vehicle self-rescue items.

If I have a chance to encounter extreme conditions, then I go through each functional category and try to include whatever might be handy if I had to survive a few days of extreme conditions.

To address extreme cold, for example, I would follow the old adage that the best way to get warm is to stay warm - more and warmer clothing layers, more and higher caloric foods, and full vehicle gas tank. Personally I find I need more hydration in very cold conditions, so I would beef up my water supply, too.

If snow was possible, then snow chains and possibly a snow shovel would be added. If snow was certain, then I would consider some rock salt, sand, and perhaps a few yards of tire traction mat. My vehicle is not suited to off-road snow travel.

Edited by dweste (12/07/10 07:08 AM)

#212580 - 12/07/10 02:10 PM Re: Winter Car Kits [Re: dougwalkabout]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078

But if people normally have hard-compound summer tires, it would be a disaster. Zero traction.

This is actually the case. The method to keep roads open is done firstly by using a snowplough vehicle to push the top layers of snow to the side of the road then grit and salt is sprayed on to the remaining snow on the road (from the back of the snowplough/gritting lorry). For this to work, the temperature has to remain above -5C and the the grit/salt worked into the snow/ice by the vehicle traffic. The problem is that the daytime temperatures have not basically risen above -5C so this process doesn't work even during the day. Night time temperatures were last night getting down to -18C in the affected motorway areas.

Many parts of the motorway network due to yesterdays weather and the inability of the snow ploughs to carry out there work, have now basically left the roads with 2-4 inches of solid accumulated ice in place, which cannot be removed using the conventional snow plough/gritting vehicles. This is why many of the main arterial routes in the country are still closed. They will be for the next 2-3 days until the expected warm front appears. This event will now most likely have a serious knock on effect for supermarket and petrol deliveries in the next week or so, leading to shortages.


The UK met weather office needs to take some responsibility here as well. They are continually underestimating the real daytime and night time temperatures. In yesterdays forecast they were only showing the temperature in main coastal city centres, which are far removed from the temperatures in the snow fields in the centre of the country i.e. about 10C colder, which they seem reticent to display on their public weather forecasts.

At least the Scottish Transport minister appears to be a little more contrite this morning. Maybe he has been advised that he will be apologising a whole lot more in the next couple of weeks.


There doesn't appear to be any news media reports with regard to any hypothermia deaths last night though.


Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (12/07/10 07:31 PM)

#212590 - 12/07/10 07:32 PM Re: Winter Car Kits [Re: Frisket]
Frisket Offline

Registered: 09/03/10
Posts: 640
Alright lets change the thread up abit =D

Best methods of storing all the stuff in your car! (also what you got if you havent already posted)

I been wondering about the "extreme" Temps items in a car have to go threw and thought some methods of storage have to be established for my kits.

Filling More water bottles half or so way for prevention of freezing and popping was one idea but now Im wondering about plastics and extreme heat. Im guessing stainless steel so the plastics dont leech anything into the water (BPA Free or not i do not trust leeching plastic in heat).

As for food Im guessing Freezed Dried would be best since it cannot expand or freeze no? Any opinions on that would be greatly appreciated.

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