Once again feeling tired of the pollution and contamination everywhere I go in the California outdoors. Cannot eat much of the native wild fauna, cannot drink untreated water, and must eat wild flora cautiously.

So where in the CONUS is can I drink from a stream or lake, and eat freely of the critters and plants I harvest without courting disaster?

As a broad general rule, you want higher altitudes. They tend to be more remote with fewer people and livestock and relatively more "pristine" I think of places like the Gila Wilderness in New Mexico - there are many similar locations throughout the western US. One that comes to mind, although I have never hiked there, is the Trinity Alps in northern California.

There is a body of opinion that if you are drinking water that is coming from a high snowfield or spring, there is a good chance it is disease free. Also many suspect that many cases of giardia, etc. comes from improper sanitation (infrequent hand washing) rather than from the water itself.

You must weigh this against the official notifications that all uniformly recommend treatment of all water unless it comes from an official faucet which is checked biweekly for fecal coliform, in full conformity with official standards, blah, blah, blah. It is actually rather understandable that the authorities are going to be very cautious about recommending that you scarf up plants, critters, or water without treating for contamination.

Back when I was a young puppy and just learning about the outdoors, we sipped from many a spring, as long as it was relatively distant from habitation. I did this for a good many years, until the concern for giardia arose (late 60's; early 70's) as boomers started getting into the woods.

One thing that may have saved me is my habit of converting water from any source into that best of beverages - a nice cup of tea.

We are all on our own in foregoing water treatment. Like anything else, assess the situation, gather information, and decide.

I know very little about your corner of the world, but there are tons of places like that here in Alabama.

There is bound to be plenty of unspoilt wilderness areas in the CONUS (its a huge country).

To make you feel better why not take the google maps virtual road trip from Invervar (drop the little man here) to Bridge of Balgay via Camusvrachan in Glen Lyon. OK its not anywhere near the CONUS but it should cheer you up.

I'm not entirely convinced that there was ever a time and place when you could step out into the woods and indescriminatly scarf down any food or water you kind. Giardia, otherwise known as beaver fever, which tels you one of the natural carriers, was widespread in wilderness areas. The real difference was that most humans back before the 1900s had imunity to giardia becuase it was ever present in their water.

Similarly, most people had some exposure to cholera and other common bugs that were common to untreated water. Limited exposure afforded tham a degree of resistance, if not outright immunity. Only when exposure exceeded incidental levels did cholera and many other diseases become active.

What people are missing is that many of the common diseases and germs are present in small amounts in soil or populations. Anthrax is endemic to much of the southwestern US. The difference between the natural occurence in soil and an ooutbreak is degree of exposure and readiness of the germs to be infectious because they somehow gained the upper hand in the environnment.

Hey D! Pismo Clams are still edible,Sea Fish(Except maybe Tom Cod),Frog Legs,Crawdads,Rainbows,German-Browns,Dove,Quail,Snakes,Bugs,Rabbits,Beaver,Deer,Bear,etc. They are ALL Edible! You Just have to Find them! If You worry So Much,From What you have Researched,or Heard then,Then Why even Try? It's Riskier to Drive to The Boonies,Then it is to Eat from The Boonies,Don't you Think?I personally have NO Problems drinking from Certain Springs/Streams,If they are High up,or Desolate Areas! I'm still here! There will alway's be a Contrary,That doesn't mean You Can't step around it!No Worries!Except for Bear,I've eaten All of the above in The last 5 yrs to 2 weeks ago,& I've Thoroughly Enjoyed it!You can't Win,If You don't play! Hang In There,Man!

Every place has it's STOBOR!!!

in my neck of the woods it looks like this.....


the world class canoe country in Northern Minnesota and only a few hours north by car,several days by paddle and portage to reach a lake like this.gin clear water and few people around.when you look at one of those maps of the USA that show the country at night this is one of the dark spots.my East Coast friends who come along every few years did not want to try some of the Small Mouth Bass they caught because of the taste they are used to.i cooked a couple on a hot rock and they thought it was about the best fish they ever had,no crud in the water i said.i have taken my drinking water right out of the lakes for 25+ years with no ill effects and the air is so clear it's a tonic to breath.entry is by permit but they are cheap and %99 of the other people you might run into are happy and mellow,the fisher folk do get a little worked up about finding hot spots.the gear you see is for a two week solo,if i added a big bag of flour and a can of lard i could winter over.



a lunch break out on some big water.

That counts as, one!

How long is the non-Winter portion of the program there?

Thanks [and hoping to learn of more candidates]!

I would also recommend northern Alabama. The demographics are such that a best friend just retired up there from Houston.

Northern Mississippi has much to offer as well.

Lousy-anna, north of I-20 and Arkansas is worth looking at closely as well.

I will check those areas out to see about the clean water, air, etcetera. Thanks, Wildman800!

Are you serious? What is appealing about the demographics? I thought we were talking about pollution. I must admit those localities aren't on the top of my list, but you never know..My thought is that they are still too hevily populated to be reasonably pollution free.....

winter in canoe country is long.say November to May.when winter arrives you could live like the old trappers did in small cabins called tilts.lots of fish and game.this not so backwoods,like a bit farther north in Canada,that you could not snowshoe or ski to a plowed road,the Echo Trail,in a few days.in fact going back into the lakes to ice fish and just hang out is a winter sport.if you don't want to live in the woods just pick out any small hamlet around Orr or Ely Minnesota.there are folks living in million buck log homes and others in something just above shack level.

My brother has a nice little place just north of Bemidji (well below a million dollars, but very comfortable). I am told that the fish from the lake should not be eaten by pregnant women and sparingly by others. I understand this due to heavy metal contamination, primarily mercury.

The trouble with Giardia is that it is transmissible to so many species... practically every mammal can transmit it. And, since that is the case, I really do wonder about the accuracy of the supposed spike of cases beginning in the 1960s. Actual increase of cases, or just an increase of diagnosis due to improved medical techniques?

Sue

hike..i know Bemidji well,i went to the college there when i got out of the Army in 1969.it was said to be a good place to settle back in the old days because it was in heavy forest and not out on the prairie where the wind drove the heavy snows.the mercury is everywhere,they have the same warning for the native women in the far north of Canada.giardia is one of those "who you talk too" issues.i wish i had bookmarked the post at a science blog but a guy did a study that found it was not nearly as wide spread as it is said to be. a canoe buddy filters all of his water,pointed to a wilderness lake he told me "every drop" had the cyst.on the other hand i seldom filter and have never been effected.

As with many things, luck plays a part.

If you are in a serious survival situation, the unfiltered water you drank would probably give you giardiosis, diarrhea, dehydration, etc. If you were found soon, you would have drunk clean water with no repercussions.

I guess it all depends on if the wild animals poop in the water in that area, or not!

Sue

In short: Nowhere.

Scotchgard ingredients belong to a family of fluorocarbon chemicals that degrade to form perfluorooctane sulfonate (PFOS). 3M has manufactured PFOS since 1948, and in 2000 was expected to produce more than 10 million pounds of the compound for use in Scotchgard products. It does not anymore. It's in the blood of every human being now. PFOS is in most fish. It's found in the Antarctic.

Eating too many fish is problematic. Many fish contain polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs), toxic industrial compounds that were banned in 1979, but that persist in the environment. Mercury is in most fish now too - more than two servings a week of fish is considered dangerous.

All of the air in the world has contaminants, both from natural and man-made sources, and the USA's air, while much cleaner than, say China's, is often dirty.

Every single state in the US has advisories against drinking any form of untreated water. Now, I know of a spring right in New Jersey that emits clear, wonderful drinking water that needs no treatment - but they monitor it daily in case that changes.

30 years ago, my brother used to canoe the Hudson bay, and they would drink right out of it - but a few kids got bad bouts of Giardia and they stopped. I don't know about today.

Now just a minute. The last time I looked, Hudson Bay was connected to the rest of the world's oceans (and I just checked Google Earth, to be sure)and hence would be salt water. I would think that if you drank directly from it, Giardia would be the least of your problems. Were they near a large river where the surface water might be fresh?

I suspect that spiking giardia cases has to do with reduced numbers of people naturally immune as municipal water became ubiquitous, a lack of exposure in childhood, and an increase in sensitivity of medical diagnosis.

It isn't just giardia. Most westerners who visit Mexico are prone to getting "Montezuma's revenge". Natives have developed immunity from long exposure to the native pathogens.

The up side of treated municipal water is safety and a smaller infant mortality rate, and both children and adults can freely enjoy water that is both cheap and quite safe. The down side is that you're digestive tract remains unchallenged by disease and may remain potentially naive. If/when you emerge from the treated water bubble and are exposed to diseases you will have little to no immunity and will like have a rough time adjusting.

Art Nailed It Good! In my youth,I've often Traveled down to Mexico,I have Never gotten Montezumas Revenge,Turkey trots or Hershey Squirts,I had friend's with me,Who have! I got The Chorrillos,When I returned to The States,A few day's after!YMMV!

"Sixteen beluga whales and 15 ringed seals from the western Arctic region of Canada were examined for giardiosis and cryptosporidiosis... Giardia sp. cysts were identified in three of 15 (20%) seals, implicating them as a potential reservoir for this zoonosis in the arctic. Cysts of Giardia sp. were also detected in feces from 20 of 74 (28%) seals examined from the eastern coast of Canada..." From "Zoonotic protozoa in the marine en...ic health"

Another argument against eating raw fish, I guess...

Sue