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#210720 - 11/01/10 11:57 PM Different Cost Levels for Gear
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
A definite self-confessed gear freak, I am always intrigued by the different costs involved in obtaining equipment. Some things can be improvised or recycled for nothing or next to nothing, while a high end product in the same category can cost a comparative arm and a leg. It is instructive to compare the different levels.

Here is an example of what I mean. Let's take Match Containers (for $800):

Cheap: recycled 35mm film container. No Cost - reasonably effective - might have to cut down some matches to fit. These are actually becoming a bit rare in the digital age.

Standard: Coghlan's Orange Plastic container. $2.00 or so. Be sure the lid is screwed on tight, but very effective.

Top End: Exotac Match Safe. $27. Nice design with some impressive features. Practically jewelry. A close competitor in cost is the K&M unit.

How about Water Bottles?

Cheap: Recycled Gatorade or equivalent sport drink bottles (one quart). No cost. Light and strong. About the only drawback is that the lid is separate and can be lost.

Standard: Nalgene container. $8 more or less. One liter capacity. Lid is attached, but bottle is heavy - also bombproof. Lots of alternatives in this general price range.

Top End: Exotac Titanium water bottle. $85 with titanium cap. 27 ounces capacity. Probably extremely tough. Probably a bit heavier than the Gatorade bottle. I don't have one for comparison.


So you can go into the field with matches and a water bottle, on one hand spending nothing and at the other end putting down over 110 dollars.

I will leave it to a braver soul than myself to discuss knives or firearms. What other categories can you describe and discuss?
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Geezer in Chief

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#210722 - 11/02/10 12:09 AM Re: Different Cost Levels for Gear [Re: hikermor]
Phaedrus Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3152
Loc: Big Sky Country
Packs is another area that can be pretty cheap (goodwill or Wal-Mart pack for a few bucks) vs as much as you want to spend. I paid $125 for my Maxpedition Kodiak and that was a great price. A Duluth pack is what, close to $500?

Ditto for tents & shelters. You can spend $9 for a survival tube tent, $30 for a small two man on Amazon.com or simply buy a tarp. Or you can spend $600 or more on a VE-25 tent.

Without getting too deep into knives, there's quite a gulf between a $12 Mora and a $650 Busse. I'm a bit of a knife geek, although the only $300 knives I've ever had were kitchen knives. To me $125 isn't really all that bad for a good camping/bushcrafting blade. Although, to be honest, I'd hate to be without my $22 Mora Triflex.

Flashlights is one more area where gear fetishists can spend a lot of coin. I'm a big fan of lights; my collection ranges from $.50 near-disposable keychain LED's at the low end to my $139 SureFire E1B Backup at the high end. In between I have a number of good ones. Do you need to have a SureFire? Almost certainly not, but I'll never part with mine! grin
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“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman

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#210724 - 11/02/10 12:13 AM Re: Different Cost Levels for Gear [Re: hikermor]
Phaedrus Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3152
Loc: Big Sky Country
Originally Posted By: hikermor

Cheap: Recycled Gatorade or equivalent sport drink bottles (one quart). No cost. Light and strong. About the only drawback is that the lid is separate and can be lost.

Standard: Nalgene container. $8 more or less. One liter capacity. Lid is attached, but bottle is heavy - also bombproof. Lots of alternatives in this general price range.



No knock on whatever you like to use, but I find reusing a Gatorade or soda bottle somewhat gross. Especially cola bottles- I can't seem to ever get the soda taste out of 'em. If you sniff the cap it seems like it always smells like cola, even months after. Powerade Zero bottles seem a little better but when I've tried to reuse them for hiking and camping I've found they tend to develop leaks. While I can't justify the $50+ cost of a titanium bottle I'm very fond of stainless steel. You can generally get a good stainless bottle for $10-15.
_________________________
“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman

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#210725 - 11/02/10 12:44 AM Re: Different Cost Levels for Gear [Re: hikermor]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
On the 35 mm film containers, possibly an even better use is a compact container for disposable medical gloves. You can just wedge a pair into a container and snap the lid on. And when you need a pair, they're there; and if another responder needs a pair, you can pull a container and toss it across a room at them. I keep several pair in a few 35 mm film containers in my go bag (also several pair more loosely packed and available). There is of course an issue with wedging nitrile things into small spaces for extended periods - they may age, develop cracks and rips. I think that's an issue with nitrile gloves in general imho. So use them within a reasonable time. When my gloves start to age, I'll use them while cutting chicken, making burger patties etc.

I do recommend grabbing some film containers before they go the way of the Dodo. A couple years back I stopped at nearby Omega Photo, and asked for some for our Scout Troop. They gave me a bag of about 100 and I still have at least half of them. But even pro photogs won't shoot 35 mm forever, and they'll get scarce eventually.

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#210726 - 11/02/10 01:09 AM Re: Different Cost Levels for Gear [Re: hikermor]
gulliamo Offline
Member

Registered: 09/11/02
Posts: 181
Loc: Denver, CO, USA
I'm not really surprised how expensive things can get - limited production runs and custom gear will always demand a premium.

I am often amazed at how cheap very decent stuff is getting! With the likes of some of the vendors listed below as well as direct-from-Asia purchases and micro-manufacturing (which allows very small shops to produce and distribute very high quality goods) I can now afford more gear and more custom gear than ever before!


http://www.dealextreme.com
http://www.rei.com/outlet

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#210727 - 11/02/10 01:13 AM Re: Different Cost Levels for Gear [Re: hikermor]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
Ferro Rods
Dealextreme.com has ferro rods for about $4 that are just as good, or better, than my Light My Fire Sweedish Firesteel for about $16. You just have to wait about 20 days to get a product from Dealextreme.com. Exotac sells the NanoSTRIKER for about $27. The same-sized ferro rod, by itself, sells for $1 at Firesteel.com. So, if you appreciate the NanoSTRIKER design, then realize that you must pay an extra $26 for the design over the ferro rod, which is worth about $1.

Here's how I do things. I test my gear. I put it through the ringer. I want to test the exact same make and model of gear that will be carried with me. For example, I don't want to buy an inexpensive ferro rod only to carry an expensive NanoSTRIKER. No, I want to test a NanoSTRIKER if I'm going to carry a NanoSTRIKER. So, I typically buy at least 2 or 3 quantities of the same product. One item is my beater. Thus, even though I want a NanoSTRIKER, it makes no practical sense for me to buy one.
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If you're reading this, it's too late.

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#210728 - 11/02/10 01:22 AM Re: Different Cost Levels for Gear [Re: hikermor]
ChicagoCraig Offline
Member

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 113
Originally Posted By: hikermor

Standard: Coghlan's Orange Plastic container. $2.00 or so. Be sure the lid is screwed on tight, but very effective.

Top End: Exotac Match Safe. $27. Nice design with some impressive features. Practically jewelry. A close competitor in cost is the K&M unit.


My Coghlan match case is what travels with me; my Exotac match safe is a shelf queen. smile

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#210729 - 11/02/10 01:31 AM Re: Different Cost Levels for Gear [Re: ireckon]
ChicagoCraig Offline
Member

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 113
Originally Posted By: ireckon
Ferro rods...

Dealextreme.com has ferro rods for about $4 that are just as good, or better, than my Light My Fire Sweedish Firesteel for about $16. You just have to wait about 20 days to get a product from Dealextreme.com. Exotac sells the NanoSTRIKER for about $27. The same sized rod, by itself, sells for $1 at Firesteel.com. I'm not exaggerating. So, if you appreciate the NanoSTRIKER design, then realize that you must pay an extra $26 over a ferro rod that is worth only $1.

Here's how I do things. I test my gear. I put it through the ringer. I want to test the exact same make and model of gear that will be carried with me. For example, I don't want to buy an inexpensive ferro rod, and then carry an expensive NanoSTRIKER. No, I want to test a NanoSTRIKER if I'm going to carry a NanoSTRIKER. So, I almost always buy at least 2 or 3 quantities of the same product. One item is my beater. Thus, even though I want a NanoSTRIKER, it makes no practical sense for me to buy one.


This is one of the best deals for a firesteel I have found: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.36082 It sparks extremely well for me with the included striker and even better with the stainless steel type that firesteel.com sells.








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#210731 - 11/02/10 01:47 AM Re: Different Cost Levels for Gear [Re: gulliamo]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Quote:
I am often amazed at how cheap very decent stuff is getting!


My first tent purchase many years ago cost me around $75 (really only suited to low level 1 or 2 season spec), yet only the other day I saw a higher spec tent at my local Tesco's on sale for $5!!



http://direct.tesco.com/q/R.200-0497.aspx

Ok it might have glass fiber poles and steel pegs (easily replaced to save weight) and the tent only suitable for low level 2-3 seasons) but it was only $5.00.

Some gear is overpriced though for little gain in performance. Take for example the Thermarest Neoair sleeping mat. Spending almost $150 to shave off possibly 100-150 grams over something like a $60 Multimat Adventure Superlite 25 just isn't worth it IMHO. But some folks will always want the latest and the newest and the lightest.

Which leads on to the question - what is the worst bit of kit i.e. the most disappointing useless overpriced piece of c**ppy kit you have had the misfortune to purchase?

i.e. I cannot understand for example why anyone would drop nearly $30 for a Maglite AA with incandescent bulb.

http://www.surplusandadventure.com/shop/...-or-301070.html







Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (11/02/10 01:48 AM)

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#210732 - 11/02/10 02:05 AM Re: Different Cost Levels for Gear [Re: hikermor]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
I have tried different pouches for holding slingshot ammo on my belt. You want something you can close up tightly, so nothing gets in or out, but when open it does not sag closed (so you can get your hand in there easily). Ideally, you want a flap that will cover the opening that does not get in the way of your hand going in, but still prevents the ammo from bouncing out when the pouch in is the "open" position.

You can pay upwards of $20 for something like this, that still doesn't work perfectly. Or, you can spend $2 on a surplus "Swiss Oilcan Pouch" from WWII. After I washed the war smell and grunge off the canvas pouch, it filled my needs perfectly. (The expensive alternatives for such a slingshot ammo pouch are small rock climbing chalk bags or doggie treat bags.) I'm going to order more of these WWII pouches. The are useful for holding many things easily accessible on your belt. Maybe a bunch of loose .22LR ammo for a hike/shoot in the woods - things like that.

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Detail.aspx?pid=102920&filter=102920&catid=0

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