Interesting! How? What are you going to tell TSA?

If you can make a fire bow, then incorporating this ferro rod into clothing or jewelery is child's play:
http://firesteel.com/products/FireSteel-Miniature.html
I don't know if I would have to tell TSA because I don't see where it's banned, but I do know that 1984 has just about arrived. Let's hope nobody shows TSA that video of the fire bow with a shoelace, because then TSA will ban shoelaces.

Just make something ornamental and no one will give a fuss. You could integrate it into a key fob, zipper pull or something similar. Too small to become viewed as a potential offensive weapon and you're good.

There is no guarantee, though... but it's cheap enough to treat it as "TSA disposable". Most likely, you'll do A LOT of flying before anyone gives you trouble. And if they do, you of course comply with their confiscation and move on.


Me, I've been carrying this thing on my key chain for ages, and I've had absolutely no troubles with airport security:
http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=374
Technically, it's a knife, but a 1" blade and a 1" handle isn't exactly your tactical folder.... Initially I would remove it and put it in checked luggage, but then I completely forgot it was there until I realized I've been flying three times with it... Since then I haven't worried at all, it goes with me on the plane.


I'm not advocating breaking any rules, but let's not the fear of TSA get totally out of perspective.


And no, the spyderco bug is too small to be much use for anything except for urban tasks like slicing up plastic packaging. Still, it's sharp and it's there.

While we're on the subject of TSA, they should be more concerned about the lighters and matches people carry-on legally:
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_multi_image_with_table_0099.shtm

As for all the primitive methods of starting fires, these methods do require materials too. Are there locations on earth where it's unlikely someone will be able to gather the necessary materials? I do want to get better at starting fires the primitive way. I also want to keep man-made fire starting materials always on me as a lifestyle.

Thanks all! The "spark" for my question came from building survival kits with our Scouts. Matches, lighters, ferro rods, mag sticks, magnifying glasses, steele wool .... we teach them all and tell them to always try to carry at least 2 or 3 methods on them.(After thoroughly teaching them fire building skills first, of course, so they're ready for fire lighting.) We want to teach them the easiest, most reliable method first. Once we've covered the 2 or 3 components they carry in their kits, what would you move onto next?

We used to start by teaching how to use matches and the steel wool/battery method. They're relatively easy for the inexperienced to figure out and use. From there we moved onto the magnifying glass and the ferro-rod (typically the BSA hotspark). Everyone would get a chance to try out everything. After that we would sometimes demonstrate making fire with potassium permanganate and glycerin (this was done more because it's a neat thing to see, rather than as a viable method for scouts). That pretty much covered one meeting when combined with teaching the safety aspects of it.

The next meeting would cover traditional fire starting methods. Bow drill, hand drill, hand drill with thumb loops, and flint and steel. From there the boys would try making smoke with both the bow drill and the hand drill. This meeting was also used to go over the importance of building a fire properly from tinder, to kindling, to fuel (as well as reinforcing the safety aspects). Sometimes this meeting would end with one of the leaders (or one of the older boys) making a fire using one of the traditional methods, and then letting the boys roast up some marshmallows over it.

One environment that comes to mind is any mountain range above timberline. You might have good tinder materials,but you are unlikely to find anything that provides decent, long lived fuel. This is one reason I have usually packed "artificial" means of lighting a fire.

Your approach sounds good to me. After that, you teach the primitive methods that you mentioned in the original post.

Here's my problem. If the primitive methods are taught with anything other than what's in the wild, then I don't see the point if we bring along supplies in order to perform the primitive methods. At that point, the primitive methods become entertainment mostly, and not true survival training. It's important for the Scouts to see that the primitive methods are extremely difficult, and practically impossible on a large percentage of the earth's surface.

After a failed attempt at primitive fire starting, it would be good to teach AGAIN how always to carry supplies for the easier methods. One example is tiny ferro rods ($.49) scattered throughout clothing and jewelery. You may laugh, but I've had a cocky kid tell me that all he needs to start a fire in the wild is a knife. That's a dangerous mindset.

I bet somebody is reading this thinking, well, simply the knowledge of the primitive methods is important. My response is if you're going to make the trek out there to the woods, then natural materials should be used. Otherwise, the Scouts can just read a book or watch the 359 videos on Youtube where people are faking the primitive methods just the same. I just saw a guy on Youtube fake a primitive method by using jute twine, a large 2x4 from Home Depot, a shoestring, a nice sharp knife and other stuff. The video received all thumbs up. Well, let's see. If I used a cotton ball, a ferro rod and a scraper, then I would be using less pre-made material than him.

On the other hand, if you can show Scouts how to use only materials from the wild to perform a primitive method, then that makes sense to me. The only materials that should be used are materials that will absolutely be carried 100% of the time. I guess a shoe string is OK maybe. For me, the purpose of the primitive methods are to answer the question, "How do I start a fire out here if I have on my birthday suit and nothing else?" I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but I believe a survival situation is way harsher.

So little weight and space is involved in carrying "modern" materials, even redundant techniques (which most of use seem to prefer - typical is Bic lighter, matches in a waterproof case, and ferro rod or something equivalent) that it is a no brainer. Add in the greatly enhanced ability to start a fire in adverse conditions - the kind of situation when you really, really need a fire - and the decision becomes a super no brainer.

The primitive techniques are cool, and interesting, but they fall in the category of "parlor tricks," in my opinion.

That's my only quibble with those who advocate planning on using primitive methods to start a fire. If your primitive method requires a modern forged knife, paracord or shoelaces & kiln dried wood it's not really primitive. Even making the concession for carrying a knife is kind of cheating- if you can have a knife, why not a ferro rod? I have tons of respect for those who can make the cordage by hand in the wild & create their drill set with a piece of sharp stone, but even that person would be hard pressed to do so when they're already lost- and out in the rain with the sun going down. Even such a noted primitive living skills expert as Cody Lundin advises people carry modern firemaking supplies & be prepared to survive.

Also, fire preparation is at least as important to consider as combustion. I'd rather have a fire steel, a cotton ball and a good supply of dry kindling and small fuel than a pair of Zippos and damp green wood. Or at least I'd feel a lot better with a good knife, axe and/or saw to go with the fire steel than I would with a blowtorch trying to light logs. In a leisurely camping setting where I have time to create tinder, kindling and a couple sizes of fuel I'd bet you a hundred dollar bill I could get a raging fire going in minutes. Having that quality preparation would even more critical in a survival situation when the chips were down. What do they say- the worse you need a fire the harder is to make?