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#208341 - 09/20/10 02:41 AM Re: Survival Hunting [Re: Stoney]
Stoney Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 55
Loc: Michigan
For expedient water purification i'm using the Katadyn MP-1 tablets, which supposedly deals with Cryptosporidium as well, but with only 24 tablets I'm also looking into longer term solutions, hence the makeshift filter and boiling. Back to the original question, thanks for the feed back on the airgun. I do believe I'll be including an airgun in my survival kit. Eventually i'll evaulate this for myself in the field but it certainlys sounds to be worth a try. All your feedback is greatly appreciated as well as any other comments.

Thanks,

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#208346 - 09/20/10 03:05 AM Re: Survival Hunting [Re: Stoney]
Teslinhiker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 1385
Have you thought of a slingshot. Up here there is always an abubnance of squirrels, marmots, grouse, ptarmigam etc. The birds in particular are about as dumb as a cow and can be approached very closely. A well placed shot that although may not kill the bird, will stun it enough so that you can finish it off.

A decent slingshot along with a tube of 1/4 or 3/8 ball ammo and an extra sling should set you back less then $30.00.
_________________________
Earth and sky, woods and fields, lakes and rivers, the mountain and the sea, are excellent schoolmasters, and teach some of us more than we can ever learn from books.

John Lubbock

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#208347 - 09/20/10 03:07 AM Re: Survival Hunting [Re: Stoney]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2813
Loc: La-USA
I personally would go with a pump and in a .22cal. That will work good, at close range up to a rabbit. This accuracy level requires a lot of practice,

I definitely prefer pellets to BB's. Pellets have much better ballistics and impact characteristics, IMO. CO2 cartridges are one more item that depends on a reliable source of supply and added weight to carry.
_________________________
QMC, USCG (Ret)
The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#208348 - 09/20/10 04:53 AM Re: Survival Hunting [Re: Teslinhiker]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2058
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Teslinhiker
Have you thought of a slingshot.

I was just going to suggest this. You beat me to it!

A slingshot with hunting-power bands on it will have a lot more power than a pellet gun. However, a pellet gun will be easier to shoot accurately at longer distances. I would say a slingshot would be good out to 20 yards for a practiced, but not expert, shooter. Much farther distances are within reach with more practice and skill development.

A BB gun - I'm not convinced that this will have anywhere near the power you would want.

Below is a good setup to start out with. High quality. Inexpensive. Indestructable. Use the 4-strand tubing set for practice, the 8-strand for hunting.

http://www.dankung.com/emart/jungle-hunter-dankung-slingshot-iiusalong-handle-p-319.html

http://www.dankung.com/emart/rubber-tubing-set4strand-1745-p-250.html

http://www.dankung.com/emart/rubber-tubing-set8strand-2040-p-232.html

Then go to http://www.slingshotforum.com/ to learn about shooting and how to develope your skills. Practice shooting with GobStoppers jawbreaker candy (cheap, and available at your grocery store). For hunting, you can buy steel or lead shot. Or just find some good rocks or heavy nuts from your garage screw/nut/washer collection.

p.s. - The heavy band sets are for shooting heavy hunting ammo. They won't make a light projectile (like GobStoppers candy) go any faster or farther than a light set of bands. So practice your shooting to gain accuracy with light bands.

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#208349 - 09/20/10 05:45 AM Re: Survival Hunting [Re: Stoney]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
Nothing inherently wrong with .177 pellet guns. There are some that have interchangeable .177 and .22 barrels. Same power but different presentations. Ive been told that difference is that the power being the same the .177 is better at close range where the supersonic velocity can cause shock. Particularly if you use hollow point pellets. The .22 pellets are heavier and slower. They carry farther but also drop more.

Interesting is that .177 pellets from a magnum power rifle, at better than 1000 fps, void the warranty on many commercial targets. The smaller high velocity pellets concentrate the energy so much that even with soft lead pellets the steel striker plates get pitted. A bit of steel gets vaporized in the impact. The lower velocity and wider spread of .22 pellets are not so destructive.

It also has to be noted that pellets guns are something of a risk for lead exposure. Particularly if used indoors. The high velocity impacts literally vaporized some of the lead. If you breath or eat the very fine powder created when the metal cools you, or your kids, can suffer. Smaller animals, and humans, are more vulnerable. Watch the air flow if you shoot indoors. Wash your hands after shooting or handling lead pellets. Take precautions so kids and pets don't get exposed to the lead dust. IMHO it is not any reason run away or not to shoot. Just be aware of the issue and take common sense precautions.

On light game, birds and squirrels, which don't have much meat to absorb the energy, you might try hollow point pellets. Less penetration and more impact. Pointed hunting pellets designed for penetration can travel right through light game. Potentially leaving them wounded to die slowly. I've also found that shooting squirrels it is often easier to go for a body shot. Below the arms and aimed at heart and lungs. The sweet spot is a slightly larger than a head shot so a humane kill is more likely. Tear a hole in the heart and/or lung/s and they drop. A cross-body shot with a hollow point makes the end quick.

If the gun you shoot is designed for pellets don't shoot BBs, even if the maker says you can. If you look down the bore, of an unloaded gun of course, and see rifling your better off sticking to lead pellets. BB guns don't have rifling. BBs are so hard that they flatten the rifling. Once the rifling is damaged pellets won't spin up properly and accuracy will suffer.

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#208353 - 09/20/10 09:17 AM Re: Survival Hunting [Re: Stoney]
Byrd_Huntr Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 01/28/10
Posts: 1174
Loc: MN, Land O' Lakes & Rivers ...
Here's my 2 cents.....I have harvested more small game with my break-barrel Winchester .177 pellet rifle than with all of the firearms I own put together. I use Copperhead lead hunting pellets, and I have consistantly taken squirrels and large rabbits at 25 yards or more.

I have owned/tried various BB guns, and they are fun to shoot cans with but as a survival tool, they don't have the range or power to justify the weight. I have a Daisy BB gun, and I use it to keep squirrels from building nests in my maple trees. The BB just stings them.

I also cannot recommend any of the short-barreled CO2 pistols I have tried for three reasons: they are extremely short range, they are hard to aim accurately, and powerlets are big and clinky and when they're gone the pistol becomes a paperweight.

My advice echos what a couple of others have said: If you can't afford a good pellet gun right now, buy a good quality hunting slingshot. You can use cheap marbles as ammo and practice with bags of round hard candy. Here is a picture of a folding Marksman hunting slingshot like the one I have carried for many years in my rucksack. You can buy them online for under $10. I also carry a spare powerband ($3.50) and several good quality regular rubber bands in an altoid tin in my small backwoods kit so I can make an emergency slingshot from a tree branch and use round river gravel as ammo.

Practice is the key word. You be amazed at how good you can be with a slingshot.


Attachments
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_________________________
The man got the powr but the byrd got the wyng

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#208364 - 09/20/10 02:47 PM Re: Survival Hunting [Re: Stoney]
comms Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1502
Loc: Mesa, AZ
I have a pump action crossman bb gun that I use pellets for small birds. A dozen pumps is more than enough to take any small bird and have taken squirrel with a few more.

Lately I have been practicing with my slingshot in the backyard. I'm using paint pellets for practice and have whatever metal balls I bought with the slingshot for actual use, which so far has just been in practice anyway.
_________________________
Don't just survive. Thrive.

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#208390 - 09/21/10 01:01 AM Re: Survival Hunting [Re: Stoney]
roberttheiii Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 326
Loc: Connecticut, USA
Though I agree you can kill small game with a BB or Pellet gun, I don't think I'd pack one for survival. They're too inconsistent and unreliable, in my experience, to be worth the weight. I'd either endure the cost and weight of a powder powered firearm, or, skip it all together. There are other ways to kill game, traps, slingshots, etc, that are potentially more reliable. In addition, for short term survival scenarios, the sort I think many of us prepare for, packing a few thousand calories would easily get you through a few days. Furthermore, you can eat a power bar or what have you even if you're injured, you may not be able to get out and hunt.

Beyond a few days, over which you probably don't need food anyway, the effort that goes into shooting a rabbit or a squirrel may cost more energy and risk more injury, etc, than it is worth. Shooting larger game, where available, would yield more calories.

Of course people will disagree with me, and I don't care. I'm merely stating what I'd do.

On the reliability mentioned, I've stored slingshots, bb guns (pump, spring, and CO2), crossbows, and firearms, for years unused. The only things that consistently works after long term storage in relatively dry space are firearms and spring loaded pellet guns. The CO2 guns inevitably have gasket failures, as do the pumps. The rubber rots of slingshots. The crossbow was a low quality one, maybe a better quality one would last.

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#208394 - 09/21/10 02:25 AM Re: Survival Hunting [Re: Stoney]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
Even an inexpensive spring-piston type pellet guns are the long distance runners. Experience spring-gun shooters consider a gun that has had 100,000 pellets run through it 'broken in'. At 100,000 rounds most firearms are well past their prime or worn out.

Pellet guns definitely have their limitations in power and range. But for light game at short ranges, pest control, and recreation or practice shooting they are bargains.

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#208406 - 09/21/10 01:23 PM Re: Survival Hunting [Re: Stoney]
GauchoViejo Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 94
Loc: Argentina
Norinco makes a clone of the Browning .22 takedown. The price is ridiculously cheap (at least in Argentina)and it works fine. A .22 is a quantum leap from any type of air gun. Any cartridge gun will be lighter than an air gun of similar performance and a .22 will not only enable you to hunt larger animals but will also serve as a more than adequate defensive weapon.

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