I want to learn the current best ideas on proper care and feeding of a rifle and shotgun. Best products, supplies, and tools for cleaning and maintenance? Best cartridge choice for a .22 rifle properly matched to use? Best shotshell and choke choice for a 12 guage shotgun properly matched to use?

Suggested websites? Suggested reading?

Thanks.

The High Road

MILITEC-1 for cleaning and lubrication?

http://www.laniganperformance.com/Firearmapplicationdirections.html


Thanks, Russ!

http://www.rimfirecentral.com

You will not find "the one and only best" of anything. Just peoples opinions. In reality, most everything works just fine these days.

Learn how to take care of a rifle and shotgun, but don't obsess over which specific products you buy to do that "taking care of".

The things I use most are Hoppe's #9, RemOil, and Breakfree CLP. But your choices are wide these days and many many things will work just as well.

I've heard good things about MILITEC-1, but for most of my needs I use FP-10 FP-10 is a cleaner lubricant preservative (CLP) but unlike Breakfree, CLP is homogenous, it doesn't need to be shaken. Good stuff.

Not affiliated, I just use the stuff.

Nothing wrong with Militec. I've used it. Works well. Still have some in my cleaning kit. It's more expensive and harder to find locally than many things. I found it to be no better than (oil) RemOil or (grease) high temperature synthetic automotive bearing grease, which you can get cheap at WalMart. I couldn't tell one bit of difference in functionality, reliability, protection using Militec than with other non-exotic products. But Militec is as good as these other products. You won't go wrong with it. Just don't worship it as the Holy Grail.

Sentry Solutions?

http://www.sentrysolutions.com/sentry_solutions_category_list.php?category_Type=Firearms

Trial and Error, mixed with experience.

Much will depend on the target with the scattergun. The .22 will have it's preferred sustenance, and for sure it will not be the one any of us suggest.

For cleaning, the gun manuals explain everything you need to know. For ammo, take your pick and experiment. My advice below should take a back seat to whatever your manuals say.

A .22 lr rifle and a shotgun have different care. After every range session with a shotgun, I field strip it, clean the bore, spray CLP around, and rub stuff down. An 870 is not delicate. So, I don't have to keep everything flawless.

For a .22 lr rifle, I field strip it, but I hardly ever clean the bore. When I do, I don't try to get it looking like a mirror. I read somewhere that you're not supposed to clean the bore on a .22 lr rifle often. Apparently, it's easy to mess it up by cleaning it too much, or even by cleaning it a little.

For oil, I'm not picky. I'll use CLP, Rem Oil, motor oil or whatever. I haven't found much of a difference between oils. I've read threads where some people get worked up about which oil they use. I haven't used anything terrible yet and haven't had any rust. So, I don't have any reason to get worked up about any oil I've used.

Last but not least, if you have utilitarian guns like mine, then you hardly ever have to clean them if you just want them to work. I personally like my firearms to be clean when I put them away. I'm generally a clean person overall.

Well, I wouldn't advise anybody to follow this practice, but for some reason, I find myself in this situation, so at least you and perhaps some others can benefit from the outcome of this impromptu "experiment" resulting from laziness. Again, I wouldn't advise this under any circumstances. But here's the deal:

Many years ago I bought a Ruger .22/45 long barreled pistol--the one with the polymer stock but regular steel barrel and adjustable sights. I bought it maybe 12 or more years ago. In the interim, I've put probably 1200 rounds of various .22 rimfire ammo through it. I think maybe I've cleaned the barrel out with solvent and the area around the ejector once or twice. Since new, I've found the gun jams probably once or twice out of a box of 100 rounds of ammo, regardless whatever ammo I put through it--the cheap bargain bulk stuff or the nice expensive stuff. It hasn't gotten any worse over time. If anything, it's gotten better. It's very very accurate. It's never been completely disassembled for cleaning. It may be rusted together inside for all I know, however I always wipe it off on the outside with an oily rag and it looks brand new.

I also have a very nice but inexpensive Remington Express .28 guage pump shotgun. I've had it for at least 10 years and each year I probably put at least 500 or more rounds through it shooting skeet. It might get cleaned once or twice a year, if it's lucky. Every now and then, when the action feels a little stiff, I might spray a little Break Free in the action to slick it back up again. When I do clean it, I get a lot of crap out of the barrel, but the action has never been rusty and it's never frozen up on me. Shoots like a dream.

I treat my better guns better, of course, but the Ruger and the Remington just go to show you how generally reliable these particular guns are in spite of poor care. I would definitely not under any circumstances do this with a firearm that I counted on for personal protection, of course. Those guns get a good workout to establish 100% reliability and then get cleaned up and put to bed like a baby.

Like I say, if you're smart, you'll take excellent care of all your firearms. And I'm not the worst in this regard. My father-in-law in Iowa always kept his guns on an unlocked rack in the garage with the door wide open summer, winter, spring or fall, and I never knew him to clean them in 40 years. Nobody else ever touched them; and they always worked fine right up until the day he died (and beyond). So, treat your guns with the care they deserve, and with luck they'll do the same for you, but if you can't always do a stellar job, don't lose a lot of sleep over it. At least wipe them down regularly with an oily rag at a bare minimum, and better as soon as you can. And it goes without saying to keep them locked up safely, of course, and virtually every single time you pick up the gun, and I mean even if you just laid it down on the table after checking to see if it was empty, open the action to check again. It then becomes automatic, and you may surprise yourself sometime when you rack the action to check and a live round comes flying out. Then you'll be really glad you formed that invaluable habit. ;-)

As others have suggested, the question as you posed it is unanswerable.

That said, I prefer copper plated bullets on my .22 cal ammo, as I don't like handling bare lead or cleaning lead fouling. As far as shooting either in my Remington Fieldmaster, it doesn't seem to matter.

New shotguns except in 28 and .410 usually come with at least 3 interchangable choke tubes. The reason is that there is no one choke that is best for every situation. As an upland bird hunter, I prefer a light SxS 20 gauge. Depending on the time of year in the boreal forest, I will vary the choke and the shotshell shot size and load based on the amount of leaf and brush cover I have to bust and the range I expect to jump birds at to get a clean shot....a different choke size and shot size in each barrel. It is like carrying two guns.

I use my trusty Rem 870 (with three chokes) and Federal ammo for everything else.

I suggest you ask a friend who has several guns to go to the range so you can try out several different firearms. You could chip in on the ammo expense. You could also just hang out yourself in the visitor area at an outdoor range. Most guys there are only too happy to talk guns. You might even strike up a conversation with a gun shop owner, many of whom have a wealth of practical advice.

A good source of definitive information is the National Rifle Association and their magazines and website.

I second THR as info source.

Bear in mind that gun cleaning rituals and materials tends to be a religious issue where "the best" discussion can turn into a verbal cage wrestling match.

My view is that rust prevention in storage is generally more important than cleaning powder residue out after use. (since modern ammo uses non-corrosive primers)

My Ruger 22/45 target pistol would get cleaned every 1000 rounds or so just because I couldn't stand to look at it being so dirty.
With the right ammo (SuperX preferred- copper washed projectiles mandatory for reliable feeding)the only issue would be duds (very, very few with SuperX) or the broken firing pin at 11,000 rounds fired.

Some guys make a point of never cleaning a Glock - just adding a little oil on the rails now and then. (kind of like seeing how long you can grow your beard or your fingernails....)

Birchwood Casey Barricade (formerly Sheath) for exterior protection...TICO tool for the shotgun bore....I use Mercury Outboard Quicksilver 2 cycle racing oil for lube as it dissipates carbon the best of any gun oil tried (dissolves loctite) lightly oil, don't routinely disasemble... couple drops oil on action bars, bolt carrier rail, bolt body,extractor spring, cocking piece of .22...my STC 10/22 and M41 had a preference for HV Super-X, and I use Federal 100pack in the Benelli with light modified choke loctited in place

you will get difference in accuracy with how tight the mounting screw is adjusted, and how the forend of the stock bears on the barrel due to barrel harmonics... it will vary according to the speed of different brands of ammo

What I've found is that different guns perform differently based on what ammo I feed them and what lube I use.

For ammo, follow the gun's manual to the letter. Within those limits, test with different loads and brands until you find one or more that works well. Some guns I own are really picky about what loads they shoot accurately and reliably, and others will take anything I try in the correct caliber and work fine. I'm not fond of using steel-cased ammo in guns that weren't designed for it, though.

As far as bore cleaners go, many work well. I use Hoppe's or Shooter's Choice because that's what I was taught to use when I was a sprout. Breakfree CLP works for this but tends to need a bit more elbow grease.

For lubrication, I tend to use a Tuf-Cloth and Tuf-Glide on most of my guns, with excellent results. Friends who shoot AR-15s a lot recommended that I use Mobil 1 Full Synthetic to lubricate my new AR-15. So far I'm well pleased. Breakfree CLP is in the gun care kit in my BOB, as I can use it to (as it says) clean lubricate and protect -- I can keep any or all of my guns up and running if it's all I have.

I have a K.I.S.S. approach.

For ammo, I shoot name-brand stuff - I avoid the eastern European surplus. I avoid Wolf brand ammo. I have been very happy with all CCI rounds, as I have also been happy with the lower end American Eagle brand stuff for my .22.

For my handguns, I stick with brass-cased name brand stuff - Winchester and so on. I don't use reloads in the handgun, just because I don't have time or the inclination to reload. I'll occasionally buy reloads. I practice with my carry ammo - a JHP round is what I shoot in all but .22 handguns, for .22 handguns I shoot CCI stingers and Mini-Mag.

I use Boresnakes for my .22, I also use Hoppes cleaners and cotton patches to clean my guns after use. I clean my guns after EVERY use, even the Glocks and the AK's, which some people claim to "never" clean.

My gun safe has an electric heater and large desiccant pillow in it.

hoppe's #9 will probably serve you well for just about any firearms application you encounter.

i also use simple green.

boresnakes > ramrods for cleaning.

cleaning your guns on the back deck on a sunny day is pretty durn awesome.

Commie ammo for commie guns, US/European ammo for US/European guns.

Wolf runs perfectly in my AK47. Never a hiccup. (So does everything else I've put through it, for that matter). I shoot 1970-1980 surplus Russian in my Mosin Nagant. But in my non-eastern-bloc firearms, I shoot non-eastern-bloc ammo. US and European firearms don't necessarily digest the eastern steel cased stuff so well, but the eastern-bloc guns gobble it up. That's what they were designed to use.

Also, steel cased doesn't expand as much as US/European brass cased. Mixing the two ammos in a US gun can lead to failures (until you clean the chamber). Since the steel doesn't expand much, more gasses blow by, and cause build up in the chamber that in turn causes the subsequent brass cased ammo to not feed or extract reliably. Best to stick with one type of ammo per shooting session, then clean thoroughly between sessions.

Cleaning provides an effective refresher course on how your gun works. One day you may need to fix your gun in a survival situation, but first you need to know how it works inside and out.

This looks pretty good for the choke-shotshell decision generally:

http://www.wikihow.com/Choose-Shotgun-Shells-and-Chokes

Appears to be a comprehensive 22 article:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/ammo_roundup_22LR.htm

Care? I happen to like shooters choice, and their oil.

Feeding? I've owned as many as 4 .22LRs at once, and guess what? EACH had their own favorites - it depends on how they are chambered, and rifles, plus on the individual firearm

One loved Rem Standard Velocity (TRY and find that), one (my 10-22) loved Remington High Velocity - my Savage target rifle loved certain lots of Eley Tenex (Please do NOT pass out when you look at the price tag on THAT ammo - $18/box - of 50, NOT for a brick)

So, with that, we are talking rifles that liked everything from inexpensive to 'you pay what for a box of .22 ammo?' - BTW, the gun that loved the Rem Standard didn't like the Tenex, and the 10-22 put it in the 'it's OK' category - I did have to TRY

Check out http://www.shooters-choice.com/ Notice that Shooters Choice markets FP-10 -- watch the video, good stuff.

After cleaning cleaning, I treat the bore of my rifles with FP-10 and then run a dry patch to remove excess. Not only does it protect the bore while in storage, it also leaves a thin coat between the steel and any fouling, making it easier to clean next time.

Just read this interesting NY Times article. I guess the point is, even if you only clean your guns once a year they'll probably still outlast you. There's an Enfield in there from 1915.

If I remember right you live on a boat on the ocean.
So salty air and moisture.
Use oil on the guns.
A drop or two on the bolts and in the actions, and run an oily swab through the bore after you have been out shooting to slow the rust down.
About once every year or two take them apart and scrub the dust, lint and mouse nests out of the actions with an old toothbrush.
Other than that I just say regular ammo from any decent brand.

Best stuff to prevent rust-- eezox.

Beat militec, clp old and new, and fp10 all hollow.

Here are the tests with pictures.

http://www.6mmbr.com/corrosiontest.html

I did not see Militec in the test but will go through it again.

Anyway great find and thanks for sharing it!

Edit:

MSDS:

eezox http://www.eezox.info/msds.html

militec-1 http://www.militec1.com/msds1.html

Maybe someone with chemical knowledge can compare and contrast these products?

Edit 2: Best I could find on Sentry Solutions stuff:
http://armedamericanreport.org/general/shooting-fighting-and-all-about-gun-lube/

Look at the bottom photo of metal plates after 11 weeks.

http://www.6mmbr.com/corrosiontest.html

Thanks! I missed the Militec plate test somehow.

Stumbled into the American Gunsmithing Institute;s DVD on disassembling a nd reassembling the Remington 870 shotgun. Twenty bucks and includes a coupon for a free bore light.

www.AmericanGunsmith.com

Still exploring, but many other offerings by this outfit.

Also got a freebie mini-DVD on the OTIS guide to properly cleaning firearms. Pretty sure they are online and a google or other search would find them.

My concern and confusion about the best cleaning and preserving products continues. It appears to be like ... and elbows, everybody has an opinion but trustworthy information a challenge to find.

Going to explore an outfit called "Dewey" that is supposed to be one of the premier gun cleaning tool and supply companies.

Added a Tipton Best Vise and a Dewey .22 cleaning rod to the arsenal care gear. On the Dewey website they show Shooter's Choice products in use. Bore guides? Muzzle protectors? Aircraft aluminum cleaning rod adapters, jags, and brushes instead of brass or bronze?

More to learn!

just pay attention to the direction you push the pins when removing the trigger group...the interceptor latch that allows shells from the magazine tube to enter the lift gate is lightly staked to a slot in the side of the receiver, push the pins so that the interceptor latch is pushed towards the side of the receiver...with the gun upside down (loading gate up) to the right... this will keep the interceptor latch from being pushed out

Yet another candidate CLP-type product:

http://www.womenhunters.com/gunzilla-alyssa.html

And what seems to be a very good review thread:

http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/showthread.php?t=58494

AGI gun cleaning video seems to cost $40 or nothing, depending on where you download it. One reviewer even says AGI makes it available for free from time to time.

I don't want to violate copyrights or rip anyone off, but I also don't want to spend $40 if I do not have to. What is the deal with this?

Save your money. Cleaning firearms is not rocket science. It is adequately covered in numerous publications, typically the owner's manual.

Yeah, don't spend money on a cleaning video. Between your gun manuals, Youtube and other publications, there is already too much free information for you.

By the way, this page has a lot of gun manuals (and all the manuals for my guns):
http://www.stevespages.com/page7b.htm

In fact, I just downloaded the Glock Armorer's Manual 2009, better pics...score!

Thanks for the URL.

Yup, not brain surgery.

In my recreational reading of prospectors/trappers/homesteaders accounts of living in wilderness areas in the "old" days, I seem to recall that they often used not much more than pieces of old rags, a small weight of some kind, and string to clean a firearm. Maybe some oil and/or powder solvent if they had it, or no oil even in below freezing weather (just store the gun outside in the cold so moisture didn't condense on it coming in and out of the warmer cabin--leading to a rusty action). Tie the weight on one end of the string, the patch on the other. Drop the weight down the barrel, pull the patch through. Simple.

Nowadays, I get by with some Breakfree, a brass brush, and a cleaning rod with a couple tips. That's all that's really needed if you can cut up an old t-shirt for patches.

+1. Granddad's shotgun looked like it was new the last time I looked through the barrel. AFAIK all he ever used was a piece of rag, some oil, and a stick longer than the barrel with a slot carved in it.

In my previous life as a soldier, I saw more than one centerfire rifle bore cleaned with a knotted boot lace and some motor oil.

Generally said rifle was an AK-47 or AK-74 (Yes there is a 74, and there is a difference.) or maybe a RPK. Generally the weapon's operator spoke Farsi, Urdu, Pashtun, or Central American Spanish.

May have been ugly, but the darn things always went BANG.