Will be in the market for an AR. Any opinions and experiences on pros/cons of piston driven models? Any recommendations on brand? Thanks for your input.

Im sure youll never get a full answer to this just alota opinions because both systems are well proven to do what they do and that's shoot things. Pistons do not get as dirty as DI and the heat is more towards the front. Your best bet is to find what guns are what and read reviews and so forth about them. Often or not Piston vs DI turns into AK vs Ar15 And then AR15 DI vs the newer AR15 Pistons.

For your first AR personally Id go with a DI Ar15 and learn how that works and how to maintain it first since its still a more widely popular (as in the amount out there)System.


As For brand i hear bushmaster alot as a cheap good AR15 brand. (someone correct me if im wrong)

I'd like to second what Frisket said about getting the plain ole AR style rifle... I've shot several of the piston guns, and all of them were heavier and had more recoil than my traditional gas tube guns...if you aren't shooting a full auto AR it is really a non issue... if you shoot a lot of Wolff ammo, just clean the bolt every time you come home, and keep the 3 piece ring set and not try to use one of the one piece rings...

the heart of an AR is the trigger... would suggest you look at the Rock River rifles that come with a good National Match trigger as original equipment.... depending on what you are using it for ... would suggest a full float front end (without all the rails, possibly a lower rail only for vertical grip) and if you go with a carbine .. a 16 inch barrel with the intermediate gas system...

my game gun is a RR 16 inch as suggested with 4x32 ACOG, modified Miculek muzzle brake, with a VietNam era A1 stock... it particularly likes S&B 55grain ammo, and will hold 5inches at 400y... I can't see any better than that...

Id go with a 20 inch barrel unless your worried about close quarters.

Yeah, I was hoping not to get a coke vs pepsi or ford vs chevy debate. I'm very familiar with the DI system from serving and I grew an affinity for the carbine during deployments. But I did have the occasional double and fail to feed issues (good thing only on the range). Haven't had the opportunity to test a piston one yet, so I was wondering if it lives up to the hype.

So far i haven't heard anything bad from actual piston owners cept some may not fire cheaper ammo. Often i see the DI guys are the ones that bash the pistons stating "Just get a AK already" or something to the such.

dual_primed....don't know how long ago your dual feeds/mis feed was, but there are a bunch of new magazine followers out in the last couple of years... I've had really good luck with the MagPul "P" mags...If you still have connections to the military, see if you can get one of the high temp neoprene "O" rings that slip over the extractor spring from the SOPMOD reliability enhancement kit

I've never owned a piston AR. They are heavier and there seems to be a bit more recoil.

Standard, direct-impingement ARs do get dirty but as long as you keep them well-lubricated they're very reliable.

I had the opportunity to fire a piston AR about a month ago. I put about 3 mags or so through it. I was shooting cheap ammo-whitbox stuff. Using Pmags (illegal in MA, but I was shooting a buddies rifle, up in NH, where they arent). My opinion? I didnt like it. There were feed issues. I had no issues firing the same ammo through mine-through the piston AR, I would often get double feeds, and FTEs. I had to push the brass out using a barrel cleaning rod a couple of times. I used the same setup on my AR, and experienced to issues at all. I did like the less felt recoil of it, but, the FTF/FTE issues, turned me off.

I sell both. If you had an hour I would tell you why I would recommend the direct impingement only.

None of my personal guns are piston.

Pistons were supposed to be the holy grail but the "new" seems to be wearing off the whole piston movement. I would buy a decent DI carbine/rifle from someone like Colt, LMT, Bravo or possibly RRA.

Great input. Thanks all for the validation of some assumptions I had.

For a true AR it's probably best to stick with direct impingement. It's what they were designed for and it works just fine. Piston retrofits have their own set of issues (like carrier tilt), so it's not like they're definitively better.

If you truly want something piston operated, then I would buy something that was designed to be piston operated from the get go. An AK, an FN SCAR, a Bushmaster ACR, ect.

Most of the problems people have with modern DI ARs can be traced back to one of three things: bad operator, bad magazines, bad quality AR. If you buy a good rifle (Colt, BCM, Noveske, LMT, Daniel Defense, ect), run good magazines (like PMAGs), and learn how to run and maintain the firearm properly....your problem level should be at a minimum.

Another thing to keep in mind is that carbine length gas systems are the most violent in operation and therefore put the most stress on components. If you are looking for the best possible reliability in the long term, a rifle length gas system might be the way to go.

Another option that is starting to become more popular is the mid-length gas system. This seems to be the best compromise, as you get a longer gas tube, but still maintain the short maneuverable barrel length of a typical non-NFA carbine (16"). I don't own one yet, but for my next AR I'll definitely be looking at a mid-length setup.

I have been very pleased with several Bushmasters that I have owned but most of the better known makers produce quality rifles. It would be hard to buy a "bad" one. I think the original gas system works fine for 99% of users under 99.9% of conditions most people are likely to encounter and I've never seen any need to consider changing to anything else.

+1 for DI. I have a Bushmaster ORC with about 1,00 rounds and it has never failed. There are things you can add to your AR to make it more reliable. Start with a quality manufacturer like Colt, Bravo Company or Spikes Tactical. Get a mid-length gas system. Add a SpringCo blue buffer spring, a BCM extractor spring with back insert and O-ring. I like the McFarland one piece gas ring. Use Magpul PMags. If you want the max in reliability get the FailZero bolt carrier group with hammer. Some think a heavy buffer adds to reliability, I have a Spikes Tactical ST-T2 in my AR. Furniture and optics of choice, mine is Magpul MOE and Aimpoint H-1 micro.

Since you posted your questions in the "Equipped to Survive" forum and not a firearms specific forum, I assume you're wanting a rifle for surviving during hard times - not competition or target shooting. You might want to consider an AK rather than an AR for pure survival (where you can't clean your gun properly, might drop it in the mud or sand, etc.) I'm not knocking AR's. But if I had to drag one rifle of this type into a completely unknown situation of unknown duration, it would be an AK not an AR.

well some guys will say piston sucks some will say it is the best and land bast Gas guns ( DI ) and on and on
we will go. the truth is they are both great guns. but depending
on your likes and your dislikes of each model what you are going to do with it its up to you.

You must see Nutnfancy's gas vs DI vid. Its all true. youtube nutnfancy's piston VS DI vid

I would go DI. It's a proven system and it's more common so parts are easier to find. I think the AR got a bad reputation in it's early years, but those issues have been fixed. Just make sure you buy a quality brand. There's a lot of junk out there.

Here's a good article on how a DI AR performs when dirty: http://www.bravocompanymfg.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/filthy14_oct10.pdf

And here's a good chart comparing different brands of ARs: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&gid=5