#206559 - 08/21/10 06:24 PM
Re: Real world situation 1 - What should I have done?
[Re: 7point82]
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Member
Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 155
Loc: PA
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Isn't the fact that the 911 call center was overwhelmed the most concerning, but least surprising, part of this story?
Imagine trying to get through if you're the 263rd caller after a region wide event of life-threatening importance.
Like the rest of us, and virtually all of our institutions, 911 centers don't do "surge" all that well; they don't have several dozen under-utilized call center employees sitting around watching TV waiting to to be needed, nor necessarily even the number of phone lines to handle to the volume in such an event.
I haven't' seen reported what the call-center's response to callers was; or when the call-center became aware that the noise was a sonic boom. Did NORAD notify the call-center when the F-15s were scrambled and authorized to go afterburner? If not routinely communicated, it would have been a kindness to all concerned.
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#206561 - 08/21/10 07:05 PM
Re: Real world situation 1 - What should I have done?
[Re: 7point82]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
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The fact that a couple of sonic booms caused the 911 system to be overwhelmed with calls surprises me. What surprised me about the story was that the two F15s went supersonic (Mach 1.2-1.3) in the first place as they would have to had to have made a visual IFF interception against a slow small moving low altitude float plane quicker if they had flown the profile subsonic. The supersonic pass over Seattle made very little sense if they were indeed meant to intercepting a slow moving low altitude target especially as the F15s would have very little loiter time due to low fuel reserves. Weird story.
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#206562 - 08/21/10 08:30 PM
Re: Real world situation 1 - What should I have done?
[Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
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Journeyman
Registered: 06/06/08
Posts: 92
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The fact that a couple of sonic booms caused the 911 system to be overwhelmed with calls surprises me. What surprised me about the story was that the two F15s went supersonic (Mach 1.2-1.3) in the first place as they would have to had to have made a visual IFF interception against a slow small moving low altitude float plane quicker if they had flown the profile subsonic. The supersonic pass over Seattle made very little sense if they were indeed meant to intercepting a slow moving low altitude target especially as the F15s would have very little loiter time due to low fuel reserves. Weird story. As I understand the story, the F-15s were supersonic prior to reaching Seattle (over Olympia), not over Seattle. Being supersonic would make sense because they were trying to reach the violator in the shortest amount of time. They can then rapidly slow to get in position to VID the target. I'm sure they were able to ID him using airborne radar and then position to VID him, if that was required. As I recall, the aircraft in question was a nonissue by the time the F-15s arrived anyway.
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#206567 - 08/21/10 10:46 PM
Re: Real world situation 1 - What should I have done?
[Re: Bill_G]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
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As I understand the story, the F-15s were supersonic prior to reaching Seattle (over Olympia), not over Seattle. Today, I was out to lunch at a restaurant near my place of work in downtown Seattle. The restaurant is on the Seattle bay waterfront and I was eating by myself. Suddenly everyone in the restaurant hears a very load BOOM. It was strong enough to feel. As the F15 would have been flying on a north south bearing and as supersonic booms always trail the aircraft I think we can assume that the F15s flew past down town Seattle supersonically and most likely at altitudes > 20,000 ft. (The aircraft weren't really observed making the pass overhead) Although F15s are very capable I have not really heard of a F15 exceeding Mach 1.5 and very rarely exceeding Mach 1.3 operationally. With external tanks and weapons supersonic flight would most likely have occurred at altitude i.e greater than 20,000 feet. The time differences going supersonic over a range of 150-200 miles at altitude to a low level subsonic flight plan would have been pretty negligible, after taking into account climb to height times and greater acceleration and deceleration times to eventually match the very slow level level target, i.e drop back down to a couple of thousand feet and 120 mph, which the F15s might have had to escort (the F15s would have had great difficulty maintaining the same speed as the float plane). As I recall, the aircraft in question was a nonissue by the time the F-15s arrived anyway. Again this make the supersonic flight over Seattle even more of a mystery. Even the F15s airborne RADAR probably wouldn't have been picked up the float plane until the F15 was within about 35-40 miles radius, by which time the float plane had apparently already landed or would have left the exclusion zone to make his landing approach. Anyway getting back to the point of the thread, I would have personally been a little more concerned than other folks have stated hearing the sonic boom knowing that the PONUS was in town. Supersonic overland jet fighters usually mean a serious immediate war threat i.e. something like a Tu140 barrelling along somewhere nearby. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/highlands_and_islands/8585432.stm
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#206884 - 08/28/10 07:43 PM
Re: Real world situation 1 - What should I have done?
[Re: LesSnyder]
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Veteran
Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1371
Loc: Queens, New York City
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wolfepack... there is a decision making paradigm for potential high threat situations called "OODA" standing for observe, orient, decide, act...snip... First codified by John Boyd - read either of his biographies sometime and this http://www.goalsys.com/books/documents/DESTRUCTION_AND_CREATION.pdf
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#207110 - 09/01/10 05:56 PM
Re: Real world situation 1 - What should I have done?
[Re: wolfepack]
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Old Hand
Registered: 11/25/06
Posts: 742
Loc: MA
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Always, always, ALWAYS assess your surroundings. Unless there is an IMMEDIATE threat, you have time to figure it out. I have never heard a sonic boom-chances are, if I ever do, I will likely jump out of my skin . But, as others have said, you sort of look for secondary indicators, and assess based on that; smoke, fire, building collapse, care wreck, whatever. For all we know, they could be building a bridge, and blasting rock (I know, they use blast blankets, etc...just trying to illustrate a point). The biggest thing is, remain calm, and take in your surroundings. Assess the situation, and base your course of action on whats going on. To be honest, I wouldve done the same thing you did; nothing. Once I observed that there was no danger, I would assume whatever the noise was, is now someone else's problem.
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#207141 - 09/02/10 01:22 AM
Re: Real world situation 1 - What should I have done?
[Re: haertig]
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Member
Registered: 07/24/08
Posts: 199
Loc: W. Texas
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I always wondered why they scramble the fighters on potential threats rather then escorting Air Force One with fighters in the first place. Air Force One was parked at the airport at the time of the event.
_________________________
-- David.
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