Equipped To Survive Equipped To Survive® Presents
The Survival Forum
Where do you want to go on ETS?

Page 2 of 15 < 1 2 3 4 ... 14 15 >
Topic Options
#193542 - 01/14/10 09:38 PM Re: Haiti: Worst Case Scenario [Re: Art_in_FL]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3561
Loc: Spring, Texas
Quote:
Yea ... that's got to be a kings ransom. Take the poorest people in the poorest nation in the norther hemisphere. Wreck their homes and infrastructure to make them refugees. Take everything they have left and dump it in your yard ... and a day later you would pay someone $100 just to haul it all off.


It seems you think what the theives did was no big deal.
-Blast
_________________________
Blogging the Borderlands
Wild Edibles Blog
I miss OBG.

Top
#193543 - 01/14/10 09:38 PM Re: Haiti: Worst Case Scenario [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Dagny Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1916
Loc: Washington, DC

According to the Washington Post:

"Federal Aviation Administration halted all civilian flights from the United states to Haiti at the request of the Haitian government because the airport tarmac was clogged with planes unloading relief supplies. The airport also lacks sufficient fuel stocks to refuel departing flights, officials said.

Nine U.S. planes were already in the air when the FAA issued the order, an official said."


Top
#193545 - 01/14/10 09:55 PM Re: Haiti: Worst Case Scenario [Re: Blast]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
Always be sure to take news reports like that with several grains of salt.

Remember those rapes and assaults in the Superdome after Katrina that were reported over and over by a media eager for sensationalism? None of them happened. Those reports were supposedly made from within the Superdome... a place that had no cell coverage or landline service for at least a week.

News media have long since given up providing anything like accurate news. They sell sensationalism to sell advertising, period.

In his book about what happened during and after Katrina, Lt. General Russel L. Honoré (US Army) said that the sensationalism (read 'outright lying') of the media prevented people from going into the area to help. They needed a lot of buses to evacuate the people from the Superdome, but the drivers wouldn't come within 30 miles or so of the place, just parking the buses and walking away.

I'm not saying there is no looting, but some photos of young men carrying machetes could have a few other explanations, too. Who knows, in Haiti, they could BE the police force....

Sue

Top
#193547 - 01/14/10 10:09 PM Re: Haiti: Worst Case Scenario [Re: Susan]
Dagny Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1916
Loc: Washington, DC

Top
#193553 - 01/14/10 11:04 PM Re: Haiti: Worst Case Scenario [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
What an interesting set of statement, re the military.

I imagine that the 82nd's medical contingent knows a few things about trauma surgery and triage. Ditto the Navy docs and corpsmen who are going to be with the Marines. Not to mention one of the hospital ships are enroute, which is more beds than most western cities of less than a million people have, mostly devoted to trauma.

Same kind of statements stand for the combat/civil engineers that are with them. And the couple dozen helos and landing craft that are going down are going to be able to get stuff from the ships to the shore now that the port out of commition- the cranes are in the water, they'll have to be pulled out. Wait, that sounds like a gig for Navy and Coast Guard salvage divers and SEALS working with heavy lift helos and drag lines to heavy vessels! Then everything that isn't an amphib transport can offload.

They are sending Airborne because everything they own can be dropped or put down on expedient air strips. Marines can bring their gear in on any beach that doesn't look like Dover. And they can both be enroute in under 48 hours.
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

Top
#193554 - 01/14/10 11:10 PM Re: Haiti: Worst Case Scenario [Re: MartinFocazio]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Martin, I think we are seeing relatively little of the "Mad Max effect" for a couple of reasons. One of those is it is too soon, most people are worried about finding their families, but there are already reports of looting from most media outlets.

That, and this is Haiti. We notice some looting in a stable and rich country much more than we do in a poor country. And it is a poor. I'd love to take some of my clients there, with their "oh, please give me a hand out" ways, and show them what the real thing looks like. Our worst urban blight is nothing compared to some of you find in a truely poor country; I don't think most of us in the West (which doesn't include Haiti, despite geography) don't have the needed context to understand just how bad it was.

Or is now.

If anything, this is going to be a phoenix opportunity. Lets see who comes to the top. If anyone does.
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

Top
#193555 - 01/14/10 11:11 PM Re: Haiti: Worst Case Scenario [Re: ironraven]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3561
Loc: Spring, Texas
At least they haven't sent more UN "Peacekeeping" troops. It seems Haitian children have already suffered enough.

-Blast
_________________________
Blogging the Borderlands
Wild Edibles Blog
I miss OBG.

Top
#193558 - 01/14/10 11:28 PM Re: Haiti: Worst Case Scenario [Re: Blast]
ki4buc Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/10/03
Posts: 710
Loc: Augusta, GA
Don't forget that our very own History Channel during their "Armageddon Week" encouraged this very thing for "your survival" in "Armageddon". I believe that the sad state of infrastructure and law before the earthquake has pretty much made this their "Armageddon" .

Originally Posted By: Blast
Quote:
Looting under these conditions? YEAH! It's called 'survival'.


The looters aren't just stealing from stores, they are stealing from other people, too. This fact pretty much negates Martin's bit about everyone pulling together and being too busy saving people to rob them.

-Blast



Top
#193562 - 01/14/10 11:50 PM Re: Haiti: Worst Case Scenario [Re: ironraven]
James_Van_Artsdalen Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 449
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: ironraven

They are sending Airborne because everything they own can be dropped or put down on expedient air strips. Marines can bring their gear in on any beach that doesn't look like Dover. And they can be enroute in under 48 hours.

Right - there are few assets available that can go anywhere in the world in unstable situations and be self-sufficient long enough for re-supply. There's no shortage of volunteers to go, but few who can be on the ground and fully operational inside 48 hours at little risk until re-supply.

The Navy has two big hospital ships that would be great here but I don't know ho many weeks lead time they need.

The cause of the FAA directive is probably not so much fuel as it is getting supplies off the airfield in Haiti. The Haitian government is not very well organized at the best of times and getting supplies distributed is probably the bottleneck, not getting them to Haiti.

Given the history and state of things the capabilities of an Amphibious Assault Group would be handy for putting large amounts of supplies ashore at many sites. I don't know where those assets are kept or how long it would take to deploy them this way, but it's probably the group most able to move thousands of tons of supplies to many minimally-prepared sites.

Top
#193564 - 01/15/10 12:05 AM Re: Haiti: Worst Case Scenario [Re: James_Van_Artsdalen]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: James_Van_Artsdalen
...an Amphibious Assault Group would be handy for putting large amounts of supplies ashore at many sites...it's probably the group most able to move thousands of tons of supplies to many minimally-prepared sites.

I heard this morning that the runway at the airport is intact, although the tower and main terminal building are damaged. The US Coast Guard has checked out the main port and that's apparently a mess.

But I guess you could just zoom onto the beach with your supplies riding on LCAC's (hovercrafts). Quite an expensive ferry service there.

Actually, getting stuff to Haiti is only half the logistical problem. How to unload planes/ships without enough manpower or equipment? Where to securely store supplies once they're off the planes/ships? How to distribute them throughout the city securely? Even the UN doesn't have enough trucks for its own purposes. Which roads are passable? Heck, no one even really knows where supplies should go because crowds have gathered both at traditional places, like schools, sports facilities, etc. but also at impromptu sites throughout the region.

Top
Page 2 of 15 < 1 2 3 4 ... 14 15 >



Moderator:  MartinFocazio, Tyber 
November
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3
4 5 6 7 8 9 10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25 26 27 28 29 30
Who's Online
1 registered (Jeanette_Isabelle), 209 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Nova, jackmiller, DaveL, Dale, rac
5267 Registered Users
Newest Posts
fresh motivation to pack a "Go bag"
by TeacherRO
Yesterday at 10:22 PM
I'm Not Coming Home
by Jeanette_Isabelle
Yesterday at 08:21 PM
California Wildfires- Nov.
by Russ
Yesterday at 05:15 PM
How Much is Too Much?
by Jeanette_Isabelle
Yesterday at 01:04 PM
A Tribute to Stan Lee
by Jeanette_Isabelle
Yesterday at 12:45 PM
Anniversary
by haertig
Yesterday at 04:13 AM
RSK-G2
by chaosmagnet
Yesterday at 01:12 AM
Urban Prep Class at REI
by TeacherRO
11/12/18 08:19 PM
Newest Images
Tiny knife / wrench
Handmade knives
2"x2" Glass Signal Mirror, Retroreflective Mesh
Trade School Tool Kit
My Pocket Kit
Glossary
Test

WARNING & DISCLAIMER: SELECT AND USE OUTDOORS AND SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT, SUPPLIES AND TECHNIQUES AT YOUR OWN RISK. Information posted on this forum is not reviewed for accuracy and may not be reliable, use at your own risk. Please review the full WARNING & DISCLAIMER about information on this site.