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#189422 - 11/29/09 03:05 PM Re: Caver Dies [Re: kd7fqd]
samhain Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/30/05
Posts: 598
Loc: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
That is my nightmare!!!

I'd rather be mauled by a bear or something.
_________________________
peace,
samhain autumnwood

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#189427 - 11/29/09 03:45 PM Re: Caver Dies [Re: hikermor]
Jeff_M Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 665
Loc: Northwest Florida
Originally Posted By: hikermor
. . . There are plenty of dangerous caves left - especially in Florida, with its many submerged caverns. "Open air" caving compared to cave diving is blissfully safe.


I've worked a few of those, including a cave diving instructor and an instructor-trainer, both with plenty of air in their tanks, excellent visibility, etc., and both quite dead. Very mysterious.

My brother is a master diver, rescue diver, etc., but he won't go near a cave. Swim with Great White sharks? No problem. But caves? No way.

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#189446 - 11/29/09 09:08 PM Re: Caver Dies [Re: Jeff_M]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
I had occasion to take a cavern diving course at Ginnie Springs, Fla (cavern diving is entering a submerged cave and staying within view of the cave mouth - that serves as your third light source). There were five students and two instructors. Ten years later at least two of the group had died while cave diving, including the instructor, who was considered to be the most proficient cave diver in at least the Western Hemisphere at the time.
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Geezer in Chief

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#189463 - 11/30/09 01:23 AM Re: Caver Dies [Re: hikermor]
tomfaranda Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/14/08
Posts: 301
Loc: Croton on Hudson, NY
Cave diving. I am a pretty experienced scuba diver (from living on Grand Cayman for two years), but cave diving is off the scale dangerous.

Yes, if you have excellent training and equipment you can minimize the risks, but plenty of well-trained well equipped practioners have died.

I don't know what the actual stats are, but I'll bet only sports like free diving or climbing an 8,000 meter mountain in the Himalaya's are more dangerous.

anyone have a source for statistics?

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#189535 - 11/30/09 07:33 PM Re: Caver Dies [Re: tomfaranda]
GoatMan Offline
Member

Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 119
I've been to this cave many times in my younger days. I've also been in the area where the caver died. It is extremely tight. The Birth Canal (Bob's Push) referenced earlier is uphill. So it must have been beyond that point in Scout Eater or the Aorta Crawl. It is deceiving by the map http://www.nuttyputtycave.com/maps.html but the Aorta crawl is above Scout Eater. Aorta crawl is accessed from a small hole in the ceiling of the room immediately following the Birth Canal. About 30' of worming your way thru straw.

Sad, sad, sad.

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#189539 - 11/30/09 08:18 PM Re: Caver Dies [Re: GoatMan]
duckear Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/01/04
Posts: 478
I hate caves, wet or dry ones.


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#189603 - 12/01/09 04:51 AM Re: Caver Dies [Re: duckear]
Compugeek Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 392
Loc: San Diego, CA
Caves are cool. [rimshot]

Sealing the whole cave is over-reacting. Seal the "deathtrap" passage, if you have to, but not the whole cave.
_________________________
Okey-dokey. What's plan B?

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#189605 - 12/01/09 05:32 AM Re: Caver Dies [Re: hikermor]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
Originally Posted By: hikermor
"Open air" caving compared to cave diving is blissfully safe.


Absolutely. Cave diving is like being an underground astronaut. You air supply can really crimp your chances of survival.

Dry caving, as long as you don't fall or get trapped head-down and die, you can live for days. If you had the common sense to leave an itinerary the rescue crews can go down and get you. Most cavers carry water and a little food. Staying calm, not doing anything stupid and waiting for the cavalry to arrive is often the best emergency plan.

Thousands of people dry cave and very few get seriously hurt, fewer still die. I have run a few trips into caves as a guide for people who have never done it before and nobody got seriously hurt. A twisted ankle, a bunch of sore, overworked and banged up knees (Florida caves have long stretches where you have to crawl), and maybe a dozen minor scrapes. Everything was taken care of on-site with basic first-aid supplies. In my opinion everyone should try a trip into caves just so they know what they are about.

Of course being rescued isn't always easy. They might, if there is a difficult squeeze between your location and the exit and you're unable to maneuver under your own power, they break your collar bones so your more streamlined. More rarely, in caves with a lot of very tight turns, they might also break the long bones in the leg. People kind of slither through when the bones are not in the way.


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